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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Default CX Familiale

    I did some work on my rusty CX Familiale yesterday. The poor thing is still in the paddock and I am trying to get it going so I can at least drive her up to the garage (really steep driveway).
    When I played with the engine last time (might have been a week ago) it was really down on power and was barely running. So the first thing is to get the engine going nicely and then look at the reamining problems - massive hydraulic oil leak and missing brakes (hope it is just case of bleeding them).
    Got down in the paddock 6am yesterday. I checked all the spark plugs and they were fine. then I removed air-flow meter and all that stuff and removed the air filter box as well. Cleaned it all and ensured the air flap is moving freely. It looks like someone may have cut a bigger intake hole in the side of the air filter box. I need to check from my other 2400 EFI engine what the correct intake hole size is.
    When I got it all back together the engine was running better. Something I did was obviously good. There was still some backfiring going on and I adjusted the ignition (the old 2400 EFI has a distributor) timing "randomly" - less backfiring.
    There was still horrendous noise coming when accelerating. It turned out to be the badly worn alternator belt. The access to the alternator was so poor with the air-con pump still in place that I just cuto the belt off for now.
    I will try to find time tomorrow morning to go and look if I can get the hydraulic leak fixed. It is a pipe going to the rear on the passengers side. I have not been able to have a proper look yet but judging from how much fluid is leaking it would be a high pressure line. I have what I believe a full set of lines from sedan but they are shorter I presume. Would it be just possible to block the hydraulic supply to the rear? That way I should at least have front brakes and steering working so I can drive about 50 metres to the shed.
    And... I got a call from my wife yesterday.... one of our goats is standing on top of the wagon, those goats are like monkeys. Better get that car off the paddock sooner than later

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    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Hi Kimmo,

    Nothing better bringing a hydraulic cit back to life A friend of mine refers to dead CX's as beached whales

    A couple of ideas on the issues you have:

    How old is the petrol in the vehicle? I would be trying new fuel + injector cleaner first up. I have an injected CX that coughs and splutters, seemingly after I use BP or Liberty fuel. The injector cleaner fixes it almost instantly.

    I wouldn't worry about high pressure leaks from the back until you have checked the low pressure return lines. Chances are a worn brake value is resulting in a continuous flow of fluid to the back brakes which then spills out through harden rubber on the return lines.

    Perhaps try holding the brake pedal down and see if it lifts/slows the leak.

    Cheers,
    Andrew.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Default Photos

    I have some photos of the whale but I can't seem to be able to link photos from flickr ! Help!
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    be wary of the goats

    they tend to eat cars, i'm not joking
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Icon6 The Beast :>)

    Quote Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
    I have some photos of the whale but I can't seem to be able to link photos from flickr ! Help!






    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    A friend's goat got into my car once, after my children had left the door open. A bit of aversion therapy with black poly pipe was very effective. The goat never went near my car again!
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  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It just clicked .... THis is your first injected car..... Mate you need to check all the hoses *everything* induction side needs to be airtight and perfect between the air flow meter and intake or you will get the symptoms your describing. Pull of any flexible acordian bits and flex them to verify there is no big gaping holes you have missed.

    For some strange reason goats dont' seem to damage them. I can remember finding the goat on the roof of my fathers CX wagon (inside the shed) many years ago ..... How it got up there without sliding off I'll never know We never could keep them damn things in the paddock.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Thanks Chris, but I still don't know why my images failed to show

    A strange place for the temperature gauge. It is obscuring the little storage compartment. The gauge is usually on the left side instead.




    Is this water pump from on older model? My '80 and '81 models have the setup with two belts instead.




    The fuel injection rail is different from what I have in the Prestige. Where there differences depending on the model year. (note the plastic fuel filter is a temporary solution)


    Last edited by kimmo; 3rd November 2010 at 12:24 PM.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    It just clicked .... THis is your first injected car..... Mate you need to check all the hoses *everything* induction side needs to be airtight and perfect between the air flow meter and intake or you will get the symptoms your describing. Pull of any flexible acordian bits and flex them to verify there is no big gaping holes you have missed.

    For some strange reason goats dont' seem to damage them. I can remember finding the goat on the roof of my fathers CX wagon (inside the shed) many years ago ..... How it got up there without sliding off I'll never know We never could keep them damn things in the paddock.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I have exactly the same motor in the Prestige and had similar problem (not as bad though). I think it must have been sucking air from somewhere or alternatively a bad connection to the airflow meter.

    We spent 70 hours building that fence ...it better keep the goats in the paddock... now I only need to get the car out from the paddock.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  10. #10
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    Default cx

    You can purchase a smoke generator made for checking leaks in air induction hoses


    See if you can borrow one .or maybe a bee smoker to produce the smoke, but you would have to ensure no ignition of fumes was possible so.

    Catch the smoke on a large plastic bag and squeeze the bag into the air cleaner?? see if smoke leaks out any cracks in hoses?

    rather agricultural I realise, but if you are up against it !!!

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i have seen goats rip wiper arms off cars, they chew at anything plastic, rubber they can get their teeth into

    god help you if they get into the car as they will then eat the seats and any wiring they can find hanging around

    good animals, just need tob e kept in a paddock where there is nothing you really care about

    they do keep the weeds at bay though at they atste great when they are about 10-12 months old
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    You can purchase a smoke generator made for checking leaks in air induction hoses


    See if you can borrow one .or maybe a bee smoker to produce the smoke, but you would have to ensure no ignition of fumes was possible so.

    Catch the smoke on a large plastic bag and squeeze the bag into the air cleaner?? see if smoke leaks out any cracks in hoses?

    rather agricultural I realise, but if you are up against it !!!
    there is an easier solution

    grab a can of start ya bastard and spray that around everywhere when the car is running and when it finds a leak you will hear the car run smoother
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    I've been told to dip a rag into petrol and move that around the hoses for the same effect. Keep a bucket of water nearby as well
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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    The toothed water pump belt is described in Haynes as part of an optional "towing equipment", more effective cooling system, I think the radiator is of the largest sort as well. Nice car, I hope you keep it, familiales are rare, as are the CX'es too.

    If the leak in the hydraulic line is on a reachable spot you might temporarily fix it with a strip from a beer can, epoxy glue and a very small hose clip. - or the pipe will just disintegrate if you are out of luck.
    -74 DS23 bvh, -78 CXgti, -85 CXgtiT1

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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Re: temp gauge - Maybe it scored a steering shroud from a LHD vehicle in part of its rebuild? Decades ago the then French Wrecking in Brisbane would import complete front cuts of various cars, so a small bit like this could have appeared on the local market without thought about it being the correct side. The fuel injection motor could also have arrived in this way.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

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    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Not intentionally wanting to hijack o'er here, but my Familiale is one step closer to bearing QLD number plates again.

    There was A LOT of water in the tank which has seemingly disappeared after feeding the car some metho. The recent (torrential) rain got the better of the slight crack in the filler pipe.

    I must say the CX wagons are very D-like on the road. It's radically different to the sedan, which is somewhat of a relief.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CX Familiale-safaricx.jpg  
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    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Bruce, that's what I thought as well. It seems like they have added lots of bits and pieces from a later model. Noticed there is a dipstick with a sensor as well. Just a shame they did not add the central locking.

    I tried to jack the car up in the morning to see underneath but it did not feel safe because the ground is quite soft. I think I will just drag the ramps out in the paddock and drive the front on them when the weather gets better.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Okay, i manged to get the front of the whale on the ramps and can see under the car now. One of the 3.5mm high pressure pipes going to the rear is cleanly cut. It looks a heavy-handed forklift driver may have grabbed it. There is about 15cm of pipe missing!
    So, how to fix it. I was thinking about using two 12bar fuel hoses, one large hose with the smaller one slipped inside to make it stronger. What would you guys think, would that hold temporarily? I would think the connection to existing pipes would be the weakness there. Maybe try to secure it with multiple jubilee clips?
    Other alternative would be to get a flaring tool and use the 3.5mm pipe and junctions I have have in the shed. But where can I find a flaring tool for 3.5mm pipe and what should I expect to pay for it?
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Kimmo,

    is it cupro-nickel line you have there?? It's a lot softer than the metal factory lines. I do have a 3.5mm bubble flare tool here. It works well with cupro-nickel, not so well with hard walled metal lines.

    I can post it up ......... You'll need to leave a substantial deposit to guarantee it's return though They always sell for big $$$$ whenever you see one on fleabay. Several hundred at a minimum

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    They are all factory lines.
    I hope I get the temporary solution with fuel line or something to work for now. When I get the car in the garage I need to replace the damaged line (unfortunately that would be longer than the sedan one).
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Hi Kimmo,

    Do be careful when playing with HP hydraulics. An oil jet 60bars will go start through you without slowing down...

    Cheers,
    Andrew

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yeah .... I'm assuming it's a height corrector return ?? It would be spraying an immense plume of LHM otherwise. If this is the case *possibly* your fuel line may hold. It's designed for maybe 60psi tops .... not 2000+psi hydraulics will reach.

    So long as it's not the feed line to the height corrector.... use your fuel line, but wedge the rear height correctors linkage on "low" so no pressure enters the suspension, but the front lifts & you have front brakes (you'll still have no rear brakes due to the lack of pressure in the rear suspension)

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Kimmo,

    Please listen to Andrew - contamination of the bloodstream by LHM will probably not be appreciated by your widow.

    Be careful, mate,

    Fento

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    I doubt whether you would get immense pressure with the lines already severed as the system will just bleed out never seen an lhm explosion as in in blowout just a dump of fluid worst I've had is an A/C line blow in my face thank god I wear glasses
    still would not want the stuff on my morning muesli
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