CX database... PLUS alternator!
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default CX database... PLUS alternator!

    Well after all the talk on the alternate forum, and now the GS database talk here, I finally got around to emailing my details for inclusion on the CX database (http://www.citroenclubqld.org/index....d=81&Itemid=81).

    I guess the more CXs there the better!

    Oh, and the word on the alternator is that it is a little off. Readings all over the shop (up to 15V), so I've decided to go with a Bosch universal 85A. I've had it with the Paris Rhone gear! So that will be fitted tomorrow/Tuesday with some luck. If anyone wants what was a reconditioned alternator just two years ago (A14N 91) let me know, otherwise I'll get rid of it.

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    Great to have the forum back by the way!

    Dave

  2. #2
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DStary View Post
    Well after all the talk on the alternate forum, and now the GS database talk here, I finally got around to emailing my details for inclusion on the CX database (http://www.citroenclubqld.org/index....d=81&Itemid=81).

    I guess the more CXs there the better!

    Oh, and the word on the alternator is that it is a little off. Readings all over the shop (up to 15V), so I've decided to go with a Bosch universal 85A. Dave
    Only 85A? Why not go larger - if it is a C-matic you need a bit more.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Dave, I got your email and will add your CX on the database today (nice photo!).

    Re. alternators. I have got 85A Bosch in my c-matic and it is a great improvement over the 55A I had before
    There is some voltage drop when I have headlights and ventilation fans on, judging from how the dashboard lights flick in unison with the indicator. It is still going and the battery remains charged.
    I drive 30 minutes in the morning with headlights off and 30 minutes in the evening with the headlights on. I wonder if it would be able to keep the battery charged if all driving was at night.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Fingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Only 85A? Why not go larger - if it is a C-matic you need a bit more.

    Cheers
    Why does a C-matic need more than 85A?

  5. #5
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
    Dave, I got your email and will add your CX on the database today (nice photo!).

    Re. alternators. I have got 85A Bosch in my c-matic and it is a great improvement over the 55A I had before
    There is some voltage drop when I have headlights and ventilation fans on, judging from how the dashboard lights flick in unison with the indicator. It is still going and the battery remains charged.
    I drive 30 minutes in the morning with headlights off and 30 minutes in the evening with the headlights on. I wonder if it would be able to keep the battery charged if all driving was at night.
    Did you get my email too, for the CX database?

    I thought the C-matic specified more than 85 amps. I have about 105 or 110 amps - Bosch.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    yes i got the email and added your c-matic in the list.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  7. #7
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
    yes i got the email and added your c-matic in the list.
    Thanks for that.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  8. #8
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
    Dave, I got your email and will add your CX on the database today (nice photo!).

    Re. alternators. I have got 85A Bosch in my c-matic and it is a great improvement over the 55A I had before
    There is some voltage drop when I have headlights and ventilation fans on, judging from how the dashboard lights flick in unison with the indicator. It is still going and the battery remains charged.
    I drive 30 minutes in the morning with headlights off and 30 minutes in the evening with the headlights on. I wonder if it would be able to keep the battery charged if all driving was at night.

    Just for grins, Kimmo check the connectors at the headlights, and the grounds from there.

    I don't know why it couldn't keep things charged- the alternator simply ouputs more amps in response to load. An 85 amp alternator in place of the 55 amp unit should have no problem keeping up, unless the 85 amp one has some sort of problem, like a blown diode.

    What is the factory amperage rating on a C-Matic? Yah, I know- average airspeed of an unladen swallow and all that
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Well it came down to what the autoelec had in stock, and as 85A is no less than it has now (with a S2 alternator), I have no issue with that. Plus, I don't have a 1kW subwoofer to drive!

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DStary View Post
    Well it came down to what the autoelec had in stock, and as 85A is no less than it has now (with a S2 alternator), I have no issue with that. Plus, I don't have a 1kW subwoofer to drive!
    I have got a subwoofer and I have installed an arc-welder cable (in terms of thickness) directly from the battery to feed it Maybe that's why get the dim dash lights
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Just for grins, Kimmo check the connectors at the headlights, and the grounds from there.

    I don't know why it couldn't keep things charged- the alternator simply ouputs more amps in response to load. An 85 amp alternator in place of the 55 amp unit should have no problem keeping up, unless the 85 amp one has some sort of problem, like a blown diode.

    What is the factory amperage rating on a C-Matic? Yah, I know- average airspeed of an unladen swallow and all that
    For the flickering dashboard light, I reckon it might be just the wiring in the dashboard that is not up to it anymore.

    What I've noticed even from the vague CX voltage meter (early model) that the with 85A Bosch I get higher voltage than with the old 55A Bosch. The voltage meter goes right down when idling and the lights and the fans are on (not to mention the 4 channel amplifier). Maybe it is just that the pulley sizes make it too low geared and it needs about 2000 rpm to give anything out.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Dim dashlights and bouncing instruments is normal...even on series II. it's the connector film in the dashboard.

    The C-matic originally had a 100amp Paris-Rhone alternator with external rectifier. Barely adequate IMO as it didn't produce enough grunt at idle. In the middle of summer with the air-con on, you have air-con clutch, front blow fan (full bore), rear air-con fan (full bore), both radiator fans on high speed, the headlights on .... maybe even the wipers & headlights as well. All is fine and dandy until you stop at traffic lights for an extended period of time, with all the load on there will not be enough voltage at the c-matics electro-valve to allow it to work .... so you can't engage a gear to move off

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  13. #13
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
    For the flickering dashboard light, I reckon it might be just the wiring in the dashboard that is not up to it anymore.

    What I've noticed even from the vague CX voltage meter (early model) that the with 85A Bosch I get higher voltage than with the old 55A Bosch. The voltage meter goes right down when idling and the lights and the fans are on (not to mention the 4 channel amplifier). Maybe it is just that the pulley sizes make it too low geared and it needs about 2000 rpm to give anything out.
    Is there perhaps a smaller pulley available to overdrive the alt.? One of your sparkies down there should be able to tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Dim dashlights and bouncing instruments is normal...even on series II. it's the connector film in the dashboard.

    The C-matic originally had a 100amp Paris-Rhone alternator with external rectifier. Barely adequate IMO as it didn't produce enough grunt at idle. In the middle of summer with the air-con on, you have air-con clutch, front blow fan (full bore), rear air-con fan (full bore), both radiator fans on high speed, the headlights on .... maybe even the wipers & headlights as well. All is fine and dandy until you stop at traffic lights for an extended period of time, with all the load on there will not be enough voltage at the c-matics electro-valve to allow it to work .... so you can't engage a gear to move off

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yah- I can see where 100amp rating would be j-u-s-t enough. !00A with an external rectifier? Hell, some of the Cadillac limos I worked on had a 200A+ Bosch, and it was all one unit, nothing external about it. Then again, that unit IIRC was the thick end of 900.00 back in '98.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Fingers's Avatar
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    Cadillac quite often run the same alternator that are found on B double trucks. That would solve the problem!

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Fingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Dim dashlights and bouncing instruments is normal...even on series II. it's the connector film in the dashboard.

    The C-matic originally had a 100amp Paris-Rhone alternator with external rectifier. Barely adequate IMO as it didn't produce enough grunt at idle. In the middle of summer with the air-con on, you have air-con clutch, front blow fan (full bore), rear air-con fan (full bore), both radiator fans on high speed, the headlights on .... maybe even the wipers & headlights as well. All is fine and dandy until you stop at traffic lights for an extended period of time, with all the load on there will not be enough voltage at the c-matics electro-valve to allow it to work .... so you can't engage a gear to move off

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Maybe a change in pulley size or even just idle speed would help?

  16. #16
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Pulley size might help, since that would turn the alternator on sooner, but I wouldn't really want to mess with the idle speed because then you're messing with the driving characteristics of the car.


    If you think the way oversized alternators we ran in Cadillac limos was something, wait till you know that for the Lincolns not only did we run custom 160A alternators in place of the stock 120A units, we also ran a second 100A unit just to power up the back 1/2 of the car.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  17. #17
    Tadpole
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    Those Cadillacs and Lincolns sure did use the juice, huh? Both electrical and petrol! Nothing compared to the new generation military vehicles (just 4WDs, not tanks) that put out over 30kW of electrical power, which would probably be about what a GS puts out in mechanical power!

    But, back on track, the CX alternator is replaced, and the new unit is fantastic. It excites at idle (as opposed to 2000rpm), and seems to run everything just fine. Now, I just need to sort out an exhaust gasket leak that appeared a couple of weeks ago... hmm...

    If anyone is after an auto-elec in Canberra, I can heartily recommend Steve at the Battery Terminal in Belconnen. He was genuine, interested in the car, and didn't bitch and moan about all the belts he had to move to get to the alternator.

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