The old ID19 is finaly coming together...
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  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The old ID19 is finaly coming together...

    Hi Everyone,

    finaly got the film developed.

    Here's the old bomb when I bought it.




    Now, I've since painted and fitted the front mudguard and undertray. ie: only 1 back door to go!!





    The new wheels & tyres have made a big difference to the way it drive (um, 'allegedly' )

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    Anyone got any hints where to get interior done at a reasonable price?? Or even just new trim that I can fit myself. A set of hubcaps would also be nice...

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    Hi Shane,
    Good to see the photos...is this the beast from hepburn springs...had a look at one there some time ago but thought it beyond my meagre restoring skills!! Its looking good..glad to see it's been kept on the road and not gone to cit heaven...
    You might try David Gries out in box hill...mainly into 2cv's but may be able to help you...great guy too..Good luck
    Andrew
    Rev. Dogboy


    1969 DS21 Pallas BVH with leather
    1970 Renault 16TS
    1967 Honda S800 cabrio
    Citroen 1970 DS21 Cabrio replica
    Citroen 1966 ID Safari (with 23 running gear)
    Citroen 1975 DS23 Safari
    1975 VW Kombi poptop
    1987 2CV
    Porsche Boxster S manual
    1988 Vespa PX200E

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Andrew,

    you spotted it in one. Yep got the car from Heptburn Springs. It was 'Interesting' trying to get it up that hill beside his house on a trialer. Luckily I didn't have to stop at the top of it otherwise I'd never have got it moving again. As it was I span the front wheels of my CX all the way to the bitchemin JUST keeping it all moving

    Anyway if you want to see more of what I've done with the car just visit:

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane Yep Gibgib, the owner of this site hosts my webpages.

    I hadn't tried David Gries yet, I'll give him a ring.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    Local Tyrant gibgib's Avatar
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    Hi Shane,
    Good to see how your project is progressing.

    I personally am not as keen on the ID as I am on the DS.
    I think it's just the headlights I prefer. I understand you have both... & not just one of each

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Gibgib,

    ah, finaly I see the light, I couldn't understand why you kept saying you liked the look of the DS more than the ID's.

    OK. First nose

    This is a DS19


    This is an ID19



    2nd nose...

    This is a DS19



    This is an ID19



    same nose as my car ie: second nose.

    3rd Nose...

    This is a DS (pallas)


    This is an ID (later known as Dsuper & Dspecial)



    I guess you like the 3rd nose the most, I used to as well. It's definatly the best for night driving! I'm kinda partial to the 2nd nose car now, it's just so different? The 2 'D's that would keep me happy would be a late DS23injected 5spd pallas, and an early 1st nose DS19bvh. mmmmmmmmm,yuuuuuummmm. However the closest I could find was an ID19p, and DS21 injected 5spd pallas. Of course they are both basket cases that need much work....(ie: Were very cheap!)

    seeya!!
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts
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    Shane, when I was a youngster we owned a country roadhouse. My old man was into Yank V8's I'll always remember a bloke in a DS coming in with an overheating problem and Dad opening the bonnet on what is a fairly big car - he couldn't believe the size of the engine! Amazed that a small lump like that could be put in that size car...

    Took me a good 5 mins to see the difference between the 1st and 2nd nose. You've inspired me to get round to reading my copy of 'Original Citroen DS' I've had sitting there since Xmas.

    Cheers

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  7. #7
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Shane,
    Good on ya! what a great project, pics look like your you will end up with a real classy car. I'm a bit partial to the single headlight models, although I agree there is nothing like swively lights on a winding road, I'm amazed that we haven't seen more modern vehicles adopting them. Apparently there is some high tech BMW with some incredibly complicated electronic system, Citroen did it so simply. I don't mind the bug eye spots on the ID's, wasn't there a model that had these as swiveling rather than fixed? I think my ideal would be a '69 DS21 Pallas with hydraulic gear change, had one a while back, beautiful car until some loony literally drove over it with a Blitz truck (long story) for some reason I find the 21 motor less harsh and more balanced than the 23, just seems better suited to the car over-all, anyway wish I had the time and resources to get into rebuilding something as classic as your ID, is it veg or mineral oil? can you still get LHS? keep us posted.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  8. #8
    Local Tyrant gibgib's Avatar
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    I was not aware an ID could have the shark headlights, guess I need to do some research there.
    If I had to pick a car for looks, strangely I'd go for the red DS19!
    They look very different in the flesh don't they.
    The two bottom photos (of the model I prefer)aren't at a good camera angle or something
    Shane, are say the bonnets interchangeable between the different models?
    Rear guards or bootlids?
    Those bits look similar.
    GB, doesn't your Dspecial have turning headlights? & I noticed you have increased the capacity of yours to 2300, do your wish you hadn't?
    & seeing as you've brought it up, what is the difference between LHS & LHM other than the colour?
    Why can't they be interchanged with each other?
    One of the GS's we wrecked was running transmission fluid which seemed to agree with the system OK!

  9. #9
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    GibGib,
    I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but the original hydraulic fluid was LHS and was highly corrosive like break fluid, I believe it was last used in '66 vintage citroens, it most certainly was not interchangeable with LHM a mineral oil, LHS is one of the main reasons why it's difficult to find a good early ID, major rust problems. I do know of enthusiasts who have gone to great trouble to upgrade early cars to LHM big$$$$$$ but worth it. My D was a purchase of passion, I had been without a Citroen for a number of years, made a big mistake and sold a CX Prestige and bought a 505 wagon (dumb beyond belief) this was when our kids were tots and I was supposed to be responsible (My wife has a lot of power and influence) anyway yes my D does have the 23 motor which certainly is a big improvement on the original but I am still convinced that there is something about the 21 motor that is just right for a D, The 23 motor seems noisy, maybe a little over square? A good 21 will give a 23 a run for it's money without that harshness, seems more willing to rev? that's been my experience and I've had a bunch of cars in all configurations carby and injection. You are right in that you can use the likes of Dextron II as a substitute for LHM and it is red in colour but we love that lime green oil in our cars (greenblood) Don't like paying for it though!!!
    I love the older cits and it's just great to see Shane putting time and bucks into such a worthwhile project.

    Thats my bit for tonight
    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    Gibgib, I think the bonnet is interchangable between the 1st and 2nd nose. The small changes between those 2 models weren't just cosmetic, they raised the top speed of the car by 5mph(this was actualy proven in road tests from way back then that I have).

    The pre 66 car were LHS, this hasn't been available for years. It's hygroscopic (spelling??) so takes up moisture and needs to be changed every year otherwise it'll corode the hydraulics from within. Most poeple appear to be using plain old brake fluid which I've been doing to date(after all the cars been nowhere). A lot of research has gone into trying to find replacement fluids. It's been found that brake fluid mixed with 20% castor oil is a good match for LHS2, the problem is in very cold climates castor oil thickens considerably. I've been lookin into trying to get 'Biostar 32'. It's a rapseed based fluid that doesn't take up water. I haven't yet been able to find it in Australia. If you really want to know more about fluids you can find the research here:

    http://www.compufort.com/users/cando/

    One most important thing that I should say is DON'T EVER USE BRAKE FLUID IN AN LHM CAR, OR VICE VERSA. Brake fluid will destroy every seel in a mineral oil car. AFT will work ok in an LHM car, but is full of friction enhansors so the bands in an auto box will grip. This will slowly wear all the hydraulic components. A thin mineral oil would probably be a safer bet in an emergency. say sae 10-20 engine oil.

    The LHS car cannot have ANY oils put in them, any mineral oil will rapidly destroy every seal in the suspension.... Brake fluid is the only real choice.

    By the way, why use anything other than LHM, it's a bargain at only $113 for 20litres. Man brake fluid is about $60bucks more than that...

    After 1959 all the rear guards were the same and interchangable. The doors are all interchangable with the exception of the later liftup door handle type doors. These can't be swapped for the earlier push button doors without a lot of cutting and welding.

    The roofs are all the same, except later one have less bolts and are bonded(glued). The front guards, well dunno, obviosly you wouldn't change then or you'd have the wrong front on your car??

    Man all this crap off the top of my head, I really must get a life

    Yep I've spent quite a bit of time on my old cars, I love getting outside after spending all day sitting in front of a computer... Money?? Haven't spent that much, the ID owes me about $1800 painted, but the drivers seat & door trims still need doing. The DS21 owes me about $600 dollars at the moment after getting it running, so about $1100 by the time I paint it inside and out. So these cars aren't hugely expensive if your willing to tinker with them yourself.

    I've heard the DS21's are the pick of the motors, especialy if it's injected, still I can't comment on that myself as I've never owned any other D's. Except driving my old mans Dspecial.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    Help!!! I have some jpeg files as attachments
    how do i send them to this topic as has been done in prior message??Thanking you
    The tech challenged!!!

    [This message has been edited by dogboy (edited 11 September 2001).]
    Rev. Dogboy


    1969 DS21 Pallas BVH with leather
    1970 Renault 16TS
    1967 Honda S800 cabrio
    Citroen 1970 DS21 Cabrio replica
    Citroen 1966 ID Safari (with 23 running gear)
    Citroen 1975 DS23 Safari
    1975 VW Kombi poptop
    1987 2CV
    Porsche Boxster S manual
    1988 Vespa PX200E

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi,

    The picture needs to be somewhere on the internet. You then just use the 'image' html tags. I can't type them here for you as they 'll just attempt to show an image (and not themselves so you can see how they work). So on the main forum pages have a look at the discription for posting pic's of cars for sale.

    using the 2 simple image tags with the following web address between them will show a picture:

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane/cx2...bo/cxturbo.jpg



    my next car

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    Thanks Shane..also thanks to gibgib who made it all easy for me...
    Heres some photos of mt 1966 french assembled ID19 confort(rhd)














    Rev. Dogboy


    1969 DS21 Pallas BVH with leather
    1970 Renault 16TS
    1967 Honda S800 cabrio
    Citroen 1970 DS21 Cabrio replica
    Citroen 1966 ID Safari (with 23 running gear)
    Citroen 1975 DS23 Safari
    1975 VW Kombi poptop
    1987 2CV
    Porsche Boxster S manual
    1988 Vespa PX200E

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi,

    wow, I've seen those exact pictures somewhere before. Though I've no idea where. That's a nice car!! Did you only buy it recently and send me pictures??

    seeya,
    Shane L
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    Hi Shane,
    Glad you like it!! Yes I bought car approx 4 months ago and posted pictures on file section in cits for sale/or bulletin board..
    not sure which one..amazing that it was in a garage for so long..story goes that owner died and grandson was left said car..when tons of box's were removed from around car this beastie emerged...car was then sold to his mate who he knew to like cits..it then was left on a front lawn..anthony told me about his find but was not interested in selling it..some time later I learnt another person managed to convince him to sell..it was then sold on again rather quickly??to a jag lover..this gentlemans name was Ralph..he got the car looked at by david gries and had it fixed up(at citro) i think..
    finally on the road after 20 years..but surprise..the jag lover tired of the poor beastie and advertised it in the cccv newsletter...again not much response but admittedly was not described well and could have been any old cit(if there is any such cit) when I saw it I did not need any convincing and bought it on the spot...
    She still needs some attention which I will entrust to david gries when i get back my DS23 pallas (auto)Which when then be for sale
    (the DS23 that is!!)
    The steering is a tad heavy for everyday use and being a rare beast I think that getting it on club plates will probably be likely
    Cheers
    Andrew
    Rev. Dogboy


    1969 DS21 Pallas BVH with leather
    1970 Renault 16TS
    1967 Honda S800 cabrio
    Citroen 1970 DS21 Cabrio replica
    Citroen 1966 ID Safari (with 23 running gear)
    Citroen 1975 DS23 Safari
    1975 VW Kombi poptop
    1987 2CV
    Porsche Boxster S manual
    1988 Vespa PX200E

  16. #16
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    More a question than a reply!

    Can someone put me out of my misery and explain the difference between first and second noses? I just can't see it. Must be something. Please.......

    John
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  17. #17
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Look for the rubber overiders on bumper bar,there are several differences but this is the most obvious to the uninitiated

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Thank God! My wife thought I had finally expired in front of a pic of DS. She only realised I was still living by the murmured "I can't see it.....I still can't bloody see it!!!" .... and I still can't see the other differences!
    Best wishes to all you Aussie Cit fans
    PhilW
    PhilW

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    when you see the car in the flesh, the differences are far more noticable. There air intakes under the headlights of the 2nd nose to ram feed the ventilation(works well, but in city traffic what do you think they are most likely to pickup?? Yep, the cars exhaust from in front of you...). The undertray in considerably different, and the bumper looks quite different. The changes don't stand out so much in the pictures.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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