Strange cooling problem
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  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Strange cooling problem

    Hi Guys,

    I have a strange cooling problem with my CX. The last week or so driving home from work I've head the cooling fans kick onto high speed about half way home (it's only a 10minute drive).

    Today I got to work & popped the bonnet, cooling fans kicking in on a 40degree C day is understandable, but a very cool morning isn't. ( The 'rad' on an airconditioned CX must be seen to be believed, it's HUGE!).

    The left tank was boiling, way to hot to touch, and I could hear coolant starting to boil in the expansion tank (ran & turned her off). The rad fans were blowing a gale. Some bloody help that is when the whole radiator core is freezing cold.

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    Lets hope there's just a huge air lock in the radiator? I've accidently priced getting a radiator recored before and it was nearly $1000. ie: I don't want to touch the 'rad' unless I have to.

    Being a cross flow radiator is there a baffle that forces the water through the core that can come loose?? ie: water goes in the top of left tank & straigt back out through the bottom of the left tank

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Shane,

    Had an identical problem with Brad's CX when I owned it just after we fitted the 2.5 motor. They do have a baffle in the tank but it's not likely to cause that problem or coming adrift as far as that goes. I suggest you use the old trick of pumping the air out by squeezing the hoses as a cure. I presume the thermostat is OK?
    Whoever quoted you $1000 for a radiator? Not the same one who recently quoted someone we know $1500 for labour to fix a c-matic before they knew what was wrong with it by any chance? It's just that Brad was quoted $700 for a custom made full aluminium radiator but ended up making his own for $400.
    Keep in touch and let us know how you go with the air purging.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Alan,

    yeah, got home at luchtime, drove with the heater going full blast, it got warm, then real cold (which REALLY worries me : ).

    The temp light was on before I got home. Let her cool for an hour, no water AT ALL in the header tank. Fired her up & pulled the top radiator hose off, no water there either, that's really not good Filled & bled the whole system with tap water & drove to work with the heater on full bore, bloody thing melted me out the car though, so I had to turn it off...

    Now to (attempt) to find where the hell all the water has gone. It's 'lost' water for years, certainly isn't burning it, sometimes (very rarely) I'll find about 1tablespoon of water where the cars been parked for the night. Very frustrating

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    [ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: DoubleChevron ]</p>
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Shane,

    With one of ours we once pulled the hose off from the head where the sender sensor for the gauge is fitted and found no water. The problem is that there are several different circuits for the water flow and this one went via the heater matrix. Pushed an air hose up the outlet, opened up the temp valve and pulsated the air and out came this big pile of sludge.
    I am presently having problems with my CX leaking intermittently but this is caused through a very fine crack in the header tank which will be sorted out in the next couple of days. I reckon it leaks slightly when it gets hot but then sucks air back into the system as it cools. To me it sounds as though yours could be similar. If you're losing water & it's not in the sump it has to be somewhere & my bet is that it is leaking after you park and is evaporating before you come back to the car unless of course it's dumping it on the road as you drive.
    The silver CX used to gives us bloody nightmares with air occasionally. It was plated 1981, the model after the golf ball ashtray, so if yours is the same, chances are you've got the same cooling circuit; keep on pumping hoses

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Had the baffle problem on my CX a few years ago - kept ignoring the rad as it hadn't been that long since it had been recored. Eventually worked out that was the problem.
    If you're losing that much water with the heater on, you're not getting a very wet front passenger carpet, or driver's for that matter? Baffle and blown heater matrix? (Yep, been there, done that as well.)
    Bruce H

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  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Bruce,

    yeah, just spent hours pulling the dash out to extract the heater core last year. Bloody thing wasn't leaking at all. Had it pressure tested etc.... I'm sure it must spray a fine mist of coolant from somewhere when the motors really hot... It evaporates though so I can't find any wet telltale spots. It's getting worse though, I used to top it up about every 3 months, this time, crap it would be 3 months, but it's never got this empty before!

    Dad had a R16TS years ago that used to loose water intermitantly... He could never find where from until oneday towing the caravan he had reason to pull over & pop the bonnet. There was a fine spray coming out of one of the heater hoses. It stopped soon after he found it. The extra load of towing the van had upped the pressure enough to make it leak!.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Don't know about the CX Shane, but there are two classic places on a D for this sort of problem. 1 = the water pump seals (it leaks from under the pulley and out of site. On a hot motor it evaporates before you can see it. Often it won't leak much at all when the motor is off)
    2= the carby heater hose (tucked under the manifold it can develop hair line cracks - just about impossible to see - just about impossible to get at - usually doesn't leak when not under pressure).

    I guess you've looked in the sump just in case!

    Cheers

    Rod
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  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Rod,

    yeah, wish it was going into the sump (almost) at least I'd know where it was going then!! But no, the car runs extremely well. What I have had problems with the last year or so is it'll run on badly. Put standard ULP in her and she'll run on for upto 20seconds. Optimax will have her running on for upto 5seconds occasionly. I've tried spraying a fine mist of water down the carby as suggested by several people.

    Anyway had a excuse to get her out onto the highway for the 1st time in a couple of years (went to Bendigo to help a friend pick up a 63 ID19). After a solid 4hours running on the highway (there & back) including lots of wide open throttle running (must've passed more than 20cars) she's stopped running on completely and is running much better. Gee's it's so much better out on the highway with a 5spd'er. You just run her out to about 5500rpm in 4th and pop her into 5th as you merge (WELL in excess of the speed limit ) Yeah it really need a good thrashing!

    Best bit, I reckon I must've average more than 30MPG highway running. Definatly MUCH better than I've ever got before. Combination of being tuned properly, 5spd box & optimax in the tank I guess.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Shane,
    [quote]Yeah it really needed a good thrashing!<hr></blockquote>

    Best tune up you can give a D or CX hey, when Arthur Lewis was doing a fair bit of work on my cars and I'd say the Ds running a bit ordinary he'd say, "Take it for a run to Byron, if it still has problems I'll look at it". Nothing like blowing out the cobwebs on a decent drive to bring them back to life

    Cheers
    Chris
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by DoubleChevron:
    <strong>Hi Rod,

    ...What I have had problems with the last year or so is it'll run on badly. Put standard ULP in her and she'll run on for upto 20seconds. Optimax will have her running on for upto 5seconds occasionly.
    ...
    Shane L.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Mmm. Overheating plus running on badly....

    weak mixture and over advanced ignition?
    wrong spark plugs?
    clogged up waterchannels in the head?
    heavy carbonisation?
    cracks in the cylinder head?
    narrow exhaust valve clearances?
    head gasket problems?


    Don't like it.
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  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Rod,

    nah, wish it was. I've never cooked it, though she's got warm a couple of times. The car has 'lost' water for years. Actualy it's quite a fresh motor. Before I bought it from Dad, mum had overheated it and blown the headgasket. So we pulled the motor & dumped a 4spder in it. Got the head done up, dropped the sump & treated her to new bearings & rings(though it really didn't need it). Basicly the motor is in incredibly good shape.(even though I've done way over 100,000km since then).

    The anti-pollution crap had fallen off many years ago. The anti-diesel valve died about 3years ago, so I had to smash the guts out of it. It's only the last couple of years that I've only driven to work & back with no highway 'excersise' for her that she's started running on. I think the petrol has gone to hell in the last couple of years as well. The highway run has pretty much fixed the running on (for the moment).

    I've installed a 5spd gbox last year and have had a hell of a hard time trying to adjust the timing. You see the gbox is out of a late single sensor injected car. Basicly I'm postive they have moved the pointer that you time it by. The cars been a bitch to get running properly since that gbox has been installed

    We have had the car for over 10years, and the motor has been the only reliable part, the C-matic was soon replaced with a 4spd. That 4spd we put about 3sets of synchros in before I finaly last year replaced it with a 5spder. I reckon all the idling to work & back has carboned the head right up. You see it only runs 20minutes a day, 10 minutes to work & 10minutes home. Half of that is on choke....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Might be worth doing a rod test on the timing pointer (remove a plug , find TDC by dropping a long rod down the plug hole. Now work out the difference in height when the pointer and the mark are in line, and when the piston is at BDC. Then do a bit of calculation and you should be able to work out pretty accurately where the pointer is set, bearing in mind that the difference between TDC and BDC = 90degrees.

    10degrees difference in timing can cause a difference in actual plug tip tempertature of 100degrees C - the equivalent of one step in heat range_ - NGK have a nice page on plugs / running on etc at <a href="http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/overview.asp" target="_blank">http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/overview.asp</a>


    Losing coolant for years (slowly) can even be something as simple as a radiator / pressure cap of course .

    Don't like that tap water, even in Ballarat!

    [ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</p>
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