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Thread: Citroen XMs

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Citroen XMs

    I saw my first every Cit XM today, and i was unbelievably impresssed. What are they worth? The combination of those looks, and the sublime interior is too much! They are a fantastic looking car. What are they like in terms of reliability? Being a Cit of that era I'd assume they'd have the hydro-pnuematic suspension.

    Any info/web resources would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance!

    Nick

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    nchandler:
    I saw my first every Cit XM today, and i was unbelievably impresssed. What are they worth? The combination of those looks, and the sublime interior is too much! They are a fantastic looking car. What are they like in terms of reliability?
    When everything worked in them the V6 was a great car !!! - the trouble is, many of them suffered problems, hence the resale is very very low now .. if you can find a good example it's like a gold mine on a free lease.

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Being a 1991, would the problems be likely to have been sorted out now? What sort of $$$$ are they worth these days? I've read that all the tech in them caused hassles, with dodgy earths, and the like for the elecs.

    I understand Greenblood owns one, I might drop him an email.

    Regards,
    Nick

  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I think you'll find a few XM owners on here; UFO also has one.
    The problems they had were mostly dodgy earths and in the very early ones, oil pumps which caused a problem with camshaft wear so don't start trying out any new theories with 25W - 60 oil or anything like that, although most of these problems were sorted prior to arriving here.
    I think you'll find that as with the C5, problems in the main were more common overseas and these were rectified prior to arriving here which again is a reason to be a bit wary of any personal imports.The rust problems due to salted snowy roads will also play havoc with the earths.
    If it's a local car & been properly serviced, I'd have no hessitation in buying one.

    Alan S cheers!
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  5. #5
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Nick,

    Received your email, I'll get a reply off to you to-night, bit frantic here at the moment whip

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

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    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Jack Z's Avatar
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    Nick....

    If you're looking for an XM then have a look at this one....

    CITROEN XM V6
    1991 auto hatch, 100472kms, Gris Dolman colour, 1 owner, full Citroen service, $17990, AOV-62A, DL-13028. Continental Cars PUNCHBOWL 02-9759 1977

    If I knew how to post a link to their web site I would but unfortunately I'm a little weblogic chalenged!

    I guess like any "Series 1" car the first XM's had some faults but anyone I know that has owned one swears by them.

    Like any Citroen, properly cared for by an enthusiast and assuming the car hasn't been flogged in the last 10 - 12 years any major faults would have been well and truly sorted.

    For mid to late $$$ teens you get a hell of a lot of car for your money and certainly one of the most rewarding driving experiences in my opinion.

    An example like the one above... all things being equal would be Magna or Dunnidore money for a hell of a lot more car...!

    Any car is a personal choice an XM even moreso than most I guess...and they are all a bit of a lotery....find a good one and you've got a great prize...Good luck in your quest and let us know how you get on....
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    I've heard about/seen examples for $9-11k. Are these likely to be buckets of crap?

    I don't think I've fallen in love with a car like this since my first 205GTi experience!

    Nick

  8. #8
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    Ours was a lovely looking example but had one incidious problem that wouldn't go away and no one could fix - the sticking throttle.

    All in all a beautiful car to look at, and to drive. Drive it in comfort mode, you don't even know you go over bumps. Drive it in sports mode (which the car goes to automatically if you start throwing it around anyway) and they're a damn quick sports saloon. I always had fun on windy mountain roads in ours, and so did my dad

    If you get a Series 1 car, be prepared to spend time fixing earthing contacts throughout the whole car, and after you've done that it should all be perfect.

    Derek.
    p.s. whilst the C3 that replaced it is nice, and extremely competent at what it'd designed to do (be a super cheap, super comfortable, super economical runaround), it's no XM. It does however use less than half the fuel of the XM...

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    My main issue is, I'm in Melbourne, and the Mum and Dad are back in Tassie. Not a huge issue it would appear, but the old man's business employs a full time mechanic, who is also a qualified sparkie - with a decent brain for cits, volvos, and mazdas.

    So, to my benefit, considering I'm upgrading cars over these holidays (4 months off uni!), I'll be able to get whatever I get, completely checked out and thoroughly serviced - and all the earths sorted. On the bad side, when I come back to Melbourne, i'm lumped with expensive servicing costs.

    I love the idea of the XM. Its got Citroen character, fantastic looks, heaps of presence, unparalleled luxury (in the price range), enough poke, and seemingly quite good handling. Its also pretty darn economical (from what I read) - compared to my volvo.

    The downsides - Citroens are relatively expensive cars to own, and difficult to get serviced. Does anyone know a very good Cit mechanic within the Melbourne area? The electrics also arent too impressive from what I read. And, being quite a limited run, I assume parts are a) expensive, and b) hard to get. I also assume that it would be a much higher maintenance car than something like an Mi16. And even higher again than a 205Gti.

    What is the spec of the S1 XMs - ie the ones that are prior to the Exclusive model? Is leather standard?

    Keep the info coming guys, this is really helpful.

    Thanks again,
    Nick

  10. #10
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    nchandler:
    What is the spec of the S1 XMs - ie the ones that are prior to the Exclusive model? Is leather standard?
    All cars sold in Australia were Exclusive models as far as I know. That means leather was standard. Ours was a 1991 Series 1.

    Derek.

  11. #11
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Nick,
    This is a biggy, firstly I'll make it clear there is no comparison between a 205GTI and an XM they are worlds apart. I’ve not driven a 205 but if it's anything like the BX16 valve I have just acquired, then it's close to the most fun you're going to have on four wheels (we can't talk about what is the most fun… on this board).

    So, what should you expect from the XM? I’ll probably get flamed for saying this but by comparison (to the little pug) the XM is certainly more of a sedate family sedan/hatch the V6 12 valve motor is more than adequate, but this is no performance monster. This is a car that will take you from 'A' to 'B' in extreme comfort, so much so that you'll find yourself wishing 'B' was much further away, seriously, It revels in long distance cruising, and is not too unwieldy for everyday city work. As Deka points out, these cars can be punted through the twisties and will bring its driver no shame; they have an excellent chassis and suspension dynamic. If Australia had the five speed manual with 24 valve motor it would have been close to the ultimate sport sedan in its time. Only a few of these in Australia and all private imports. For the record all Australian cars are four speed auto

    The cabin is spacious and open, with very good all round visibility, manoeuvring and parking are a breeze, the leather seats offer good support with plenty of adjustment to suit just about any driver, AF member UFO is over 6 feet tall and sits comfortably without being aware of the roof lining. Maybe one gripe I have is that the headlights are a disaster for a vehicle capable of fairly high cruising speeds, I'm yet to do anything about it but Phillips make a bulb that at least makes forward illumination adequate (Deka’s father had them fitted to his XM with impressive results).

    As others here have mentioned the XM has a reputation for poor electrics, it's a shame because as Alan S points out this was a reputation earned mostly in the UK, cars brought into Australia were modified before being sold (at least by the reputable agents) spade ends at earthing points were replaced with ring/eye type ends that screwed to the body. My car is 100% fully functional and has not had one issue with electrics of any kind, I tell a lie.. I have an intermittent false brake light warning failure (the brake lights actually continue to work), maybe once a month, requires that I clean the terminals on the bulbs apply a little Vaseline and all is good for another month or so. I really see no 'more' need to fear the electrics in the XM than any other car of its vintage.

    I've owned mine now for two and a half years, apart from servicing every 10,000k's (which has included all four spheres being re-gassed in that period) I have had to replace one radiator hose, a new battery, and one high pressure hydraulic line. I'll be up for new tyres very soon and I have a bearing noise in the water pump. So in my time of ownership, only one issue that was Citroen specific, the rest being fair wear and tear.

    If you are seriously looking at XM's my advice would be to eliminate any private imports (I know there are, no doubt, some great examples out there, but for a first time Citroen owner I stand by this advice) go for as late a model as your budget will allow, series 2 cars are less prone to rattles and squeaks (series 1 cars have some cheap plastics that can and will crack) mine (series 1) at this stage is still in excellent condition, but cars that have not been garaged will show symptoms early as a result of Australia's cruel sun.

    What can I say, they are a great car and destined to be a classic (maybe not in my lifetime) blush a well maintained car will give many years of trouble free motoring; a poorly maintained car will leave a very bad impression and no doubt put you off Citroen forever. Good luck with your search feel free to ask any questions I'll try not to allow my bias to interfere with the facts too much

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    If they came here as a manual I would be first in line to get one. Maybe I will have to import one when I have the readies. One day perhaps.
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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Living in Melbourne, a more traffic friendly car than a 205 would be nice. I spend a considerable amount of time in traffic, and in wonderful drives out to places like Geelong - excitement.... And, when back in Tassie, I do somewhere in the realm of 500kms a week, so a comfortable, opulent cruiser would be very nice.

    I'm not expecting the sheer fun factor of a 205, but just some good roadholding capabilities, and the ability for the car to impress me on a reasonably windy road. I love the 205, but the common lack of cruise control, and even in the S3s, lack of any real creature comfort, doesn't make the idea of sitting in Melbourne peakhour for an hour or two all that enticing - or long straight drives for that matter.

    Is a Xantia worth considering?

    Citroen Xantia 94 Auto, cruise, CD, air, 140K, 1 owner, V.G.C., 12mths reg. $8,700 neg AAK73S 0407 783 413.

    Citroen Xantia 1994 Auto antique silver, 176995kms, rego March 2004, AOF-70X, $9990. DL-13028. Continental Cars PUNCHBOWL 02-9759 1977.

    They are both autos , but the Xantias seem to be a fairly capable car. Unfortunately, the Xantia has neither the luxury, nor the character of the XM, but if I was able to make a decision with head rather than heart, the Xantia would more likely be an easier to own car ja?

    I've fallen for the XM though. Just have to decide whether I can find one in my budget, and whether or not I'll have to spend 6 months looking.

    Nick

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Nick,

    my father looked into trading his Xantia on an XM as he wanted something that would tow a caravan with ease.

    His impression after driving the XM was they felt like a big Xantia, but 'older' if that makes sense. ie: it felt like a 10year older design after the Xanta. I don't think it felt hugely quicker than there 2litre auto Xantia either. (my mother was plenty p!ssed that he didn't buy it, it was a gorgious looking car I've heard).

    It would have cost him the Xantia as a trade, plus considerable $$$$. So he kept the Xantia and bought a 98 Verada for the same $$$ but with no trade. Having a 3.5 litre quad overhead cam V6, it's effortlessly tows the caravan (and he tells me it uses horendous amounts of petrol in doing so).

    So to answer your question, I don't think you would be dissapointed with a Xantia. To me though, they certainly don't have the same appeal as the XM

    Other than that, all I can say it "Get a CX"

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Other than that, all I can say it "Get a CX"
    Like this one?? wink


    CX 25 GTi Turbo approx ’85 model. (see road test The Chevrons, May ’99 – “Is this the greatest road going Citroen ever built?”) Owner’s commitments have prevented use and enjoyment of the car. Excellent bodywork, great mechanical condition. Exhilarating performance, very low mileage. Would like to see car sold to committed club member BP363 $13 000 Brian Pearson 02 9876 5288
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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Or this which looks prety good

    <a href="http://www.citroencarclub.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187" target="_blank">Xantia CT Turbo for sale</a>

    Paul
    Paul Smith

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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    DoubleChevron:
    Nick,

    my father looked into trading his Xantia on an XM as he wanted something that would tow a caravan with ease.

    His impression after driving the XM was they felt like a big Xantia, but 'older' if that makes sense. ie: it felt like a 10year older design after the Xanta. I don't think it felt hugely quicker than there 2litre auto Xantia either. (my mother was plenty p!ssed that he didn't buy it, it was a gorgious looking car I've heard).

    It would have cost him the Xantia as a trade, plus considerable $$$$. So he kept the Xantia and bought a 98 Verada for the same $$$ but with no trade. Having a 3.5 litre quad overhead cam V6, it's effortlessly tows the caravan (and he tells me it uses horendous amounts of petrol in doing so).

    So to answer your question, I don't think you would be dissapointed with a Xantia. To me though, they certainly don't have the same appeal as the XM

    Other than that, all I can say it "Get a CX"

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Absolutely true about the Xantia not having the same appeal as the XM! I saw an XM in the city today, white, tan leather interior, I am in love! Looks like I'll be working hard over the holidays to get together the extra $$$!

    Haha, CX is a little too left of centre for me! Lovely cars, but pushing it in the age department, and remember, I'm a pug fan coming to the dark side here, so I'm still pretty conservative! No turbos either, I've done my dash after owning two oldish turbos, and just want me some NA piece of machinery.

    Thanks

    Nick

  18. #18
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    I too was looking at buying an XM at one stage and joined the Yahoo XM chat site. From what I read on the many posts, the biggest problem the XM had wasn't the electrics (not really a problem after 1994), but the automatic transmission. For some reason (lack of sufficient cooling?) they didn't seem to last more than 100k before needing a rebuild (big expense).

  19. #19
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    I have to say it's been intersting following your search for a new car - an XM is certainly a different beast to a 205, 306 or 405.

    It certainly has its own unique persona.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Nick,

    CX's are near indestructable. As for old Turbos, I'd be extremely impressed if you could kill the motor in a CXturbo. I've NEVER heard of one of these motors dying, they are seriously that overbuilt !! Most of them get crushed (still running well) in the UK as there to rusty, and use to much fuel (anything bigger than a Xsara is HUGE over there ).

    If you want some N/A fun, a BX16valve is no doubt the choice. Just put some standard BX sphere's on it so it's not so bloody firm to ride in wink

    If I could get a turbo diesel XM, that would be my choice.

    Poor guy, once you sample citroen_ You'll never go back to peugeot_ roll_lau roll_lau

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
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  21. #21
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    GreenBlood:
    If Australia had the five speed manual with 24 valve motor it would have been close to the ultimate sport sedan in its time. Only a few of these in Australia and all private imports. For the record all Australian cars are four speed auto
    And one of my friend's dad owns one I've seen it, but haven't been in it.

    Derek.

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Pug307:
    I have to say it's been intersting following your search for a new car - an XM is certainly a different beast to a 205, 306 or 405.

    It certainly has its own unique persona.
    Justin, the 306 was never really an option, they are just a bit boring. Nothing outstanding. The 405 was looking like an option, but its a bit difficult to find one in the spec I want. The 205 is still a major choice, but I dunno, my common sense is starting to get the better of me, and I'm wanting a car thats a bit more comfortable - mind you, an XM isnt exactly common sense.

    Over my search for the right car I've driven
    - 1990 Golf GTi
    - A few 405s of various spec
    - 205 GTi
    - Seat Ibiza GTi

    And now, I'm fixated on Citroens. I was always going to be french really, and Cits are such different, attention seeking cars. And the XM is gorgeous, with every feature I could want!

    Nick

  23. #23
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Paul that Xantia looks great..

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Jack Z's Avatar
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    Nick,

    Talk to these guys...

    FRENCH CONNECTION PTY LTD
    ..French Car Speclst 38 King St Airport West 3042 (03) 9338 8191
    Fax (03) 9335 4002

    They can either find you the right car (whatever you choose be it Cit or Pug) and do a pre purchase inspection to limit your risk.

    Are also a good reference for how much to pay.

    I've seen the one at Continentals (Series 1 '91 100k's) that I posted earlier and whilst the guys at Continentals will sit on a good used Citroen for months in order to get the price they want this one is a very good example... low k's for age, one owner, full citroen service and very very neat in every department.

    When it comes to niche models like XM's it's always better to pay over the money at purchase and get the absolute best example available rather than take the risk and be stuck with a poorly maintained one or lemon...for a few dollars less and a detailed service history is critical.

    Might be worth a phone call and a chat to Bill or Greg ... I couldn't think of a greater way to drive back to Melbourne from Sydney than in an XM for the first time!
    BX TZI Hatch
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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    erm...
    where to start...

    Yep, S3 205s are utterly different to XMs wink
    Chalk and cheese.....though I must say, sit in my S3 in Melbourne traffic 2hrs a day and don't consider it a chore.

    Though the plastic creaks and rattles in the two will probably be similar by now....The XM is a quiet car (much much quieter than a 205), but there is alot in it and it's a large, heavy hatchback which makes it somewhat susceptible to rattles and creaks even when new...

    The XM is a great car, smooth, brisk, decent handling (though don't think you'll be beating any 205s through corners) and nicely equipped with a sightly "out of this world" ambience (which is somewhat dulled in the S2).

    If I were to buy one it would be an s2...the dash and wheels are more boring but alot of the niggling problems were sorted, the 24v engine is much nicer and is generally a better sorted car all round......

    A friend of mine's S1 XM had it's auto replaced under warranty due to failure (he went on to later buy a new S2, which also developed auto probs), his wasn't not the only one that didn't make it out of warranty with it's original box either........so if you find one, get it's box checked carefully, they are expensive to fix/replace, just ask any Alfa 164 owner wink .

    A cheap crappy XM will be a nightmare, you need to find a good one, if that's what you want....

    The smart money at the moment would be on a Xantia, they are probably only 3/4 the Citroen an XM is, but are not as delicate, are more affordable and are younger, you'll have a better range of good ones to choose from....the 4cyls in the Xantias can't compete with the XMs V6....they are noticably less gutsy/poky even though the XM's carrying more weight...

    I think Alpine Affaire had a V6 Xantia for low 20s a couple of weeks ago.....that might have been interesting

    EDIT

    Actually, I could play devil's advocate here and suggest an Alfa 164. You're obviously not scared of expensive Euro maintenance

    It will have all the luxury you're after, if you are going to brave the XM's gearbox the Alfa's is mechanically identical....
    The Alfa's V6 is a beautiful thing and from a sports car perspective the 164 will ultimately outhandle an XM (though rides like crap compared to the XM).

    164s have plenty of electrical problems of their own......though not really any more dramatic than the XM......both will likely cost similar amounts to run/maintain/sort.
    There should be more 164s out there to choose from so your chances of finding a good one "should" be better, aaaaand they're cheaper to start with than an XM.

    Regardless of what you may have read about them, if you are only vaguely interested they are worth a test drive, a good one is a pretty decent drive.

    <small>[ 28 October 2003, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: DTwo ]</small>

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