Merger or Takeover and what was it all about?/
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  1. #1
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Merger or Takeover and what was it all about?/

    Just had a look at <a href="http://www.citroen.com," target="_blank">www.citroen.com,</a> have not been there for a while actually. I knew that Peugeot took over Citroen years ago but why did this happen & when and what was all the stuff that went on behind it? What do Citroen owners think of Peugeot taking over Citroen?
    I had a look at some van (c8) and it is identical as the peugeot van (not sure what model?).Also when i was overseas the Peugeot partner is identical to the berlingo except for badging. What does everyone think? blush

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    they are both companies of PSA.

    Andreas

  3. #3
    Member Jon Wood's Avatar
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    Citroen was owned by Michelin until 1974 when the company was sold to Peugeot, Michelin having acquired Citroen in the 1930's following the death of Andre Citroen (Michelin were the biggest creditor).
    By the early 1970's Citroen was in financial trouble, following the partnership with Maserati (sorry about my spelling), and the cost of producing new models like the GS.Much money had also been wasted with another business tie up with Comotor to produce Wankel engines, another unsucessful venture.By 1974, and in the wake of the Oil Crisis, Citroen was sold to Peugeot (PSA).
    Really the last "all Citroen" car to be launched was the 1975 CX, and after that Peugeot provided drivetrains, chassis parts and floor pans for all subsequent models, starting with the Visa in 1978.
    Citroen were allowed to keep and develop their own suspension systems for models like the BX and XM whilst they were all powered by engines and gearboxses shared with the Peugeot model range there after. Hence Peugeot 405 and BX share loads of bits, ZX and 306,AX/Saxo and 106; XM and 605 etc etc.
    BX 1.7TD TZD 1993
    Berlingo Multispace 2.0 HDi 2004

  4. #4
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    disappro But how do owners feel about all this?

    I own a Renault and they have taken over Nissan basically but i would hate to own a nissan (if i was that way inclined), knowing my company was owned by someone else??Might be just me? disappro

  5. #5
    Member Jon Wood's Avatar
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    Well thats the way of the modern Automotive industry. Hence:
    Vauxhall/GM tie in with Saab
    Ford tie in with Mazda
    Renault and Nissan
    Even Rolls Royce taken over by VW!!
    and etc etc etc.
    Citroen have the Relay Van, which is also a Peugeot Boxer, which is then rebadged as a Fiat Ducatto!! The new Renault Master van is sold in the UK as a Vauxhall Movano!!
    To be, its just more and more confusing!
    BX 1.7TD TZD 1993
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  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Well I don't like the fact that Peugeot basically killed off the GS Birotor and the SM at the moment it began handling Citroens affairs (fuel crisis or no fuel crisis). Just by looking at a CX (the last Citroen designed in house) and then comparing them to future models, you can see how Citroen started to conform and basically stopped being weird. clown
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  7. #7
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    The Nissans coming out in Europe since the Renault tie in are pretty avant garde, though. Pick up a UK car mag and have a look at the Primera if you get a chance. And I saw some pics of the next Almera (Pulsar) that could well be the next Clio with a bit of fine tuning in the looks department.

    Stuey


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  8. #8
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    This is all fair enough but how do people that own Citroens feel about vans like the berlingo looking exactly like a peugeot partner? It makes it hard to be really enthusiastic about the models doesnt it? disappro

  9. #9
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I just realised that the citroen saxo is exactly the same car as the peugeot 106. This is sacrilage!!! I would be horrified. I guess as eveyone says "its a sign of the times"...

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
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    it could be a lot worse...daewoo could have bought them...

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Well Daniel,

    does this say anything about modern 'Cit's.

    The cars I own:

    63 ID19p --Amazingly softly suspended oldie.
    72 DS21 ie pallas --suprisingly quick/usable oldie
    76 CX2200 pallas --hmmm
    78 GS1220 pallas --Best small car i've ever driven.
    78 CX2400 pallas --Nice car, hottest car i"ve ever driven

    and um- yeah Ang's BX19tri ( :p yawn :p )

    My father has:

    1950 Citroen Legere --Gorgious old car tongue
    1974 Dspecial -budget way to get 'into' D's wink
    1976 CX2200 deisel wagon -fantastic old car
    1984 2CV dolly ('funnest car ever made' )
    1986 CX2500 GTi Turbo (drrrooooolllll)

    and umm 98 Xantia VSX ( :p yawn :p )

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    CX 2200 diesel wagon , have to be the slowest car I've ever driven, great if you want a semi mobile garden shed !

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Actualy,

    the old wagon is very surprising, no it isn't quick, but it is effortless. It's actualy better to drive in traffic than my CX2400 5spd pallas. You see you just let her drop down to 20mph in top, and it'll pull it easily back to 40mph. It's MUCH quicker than those early Merc deisels, and will cruise at any speed between 40 & 90mph all day never returning less than 38mpg.

    Just driving it to work & back (never leaving the city) it runs 38mpg. Pretty good for any huge wagon The only CX I've driven that steers/drives as well as it is the GTi Turbo, but it's different more than better.

    We went to a Citroen car club meeting years ago in it. There was a couple of people over from New Zealand that had CX2500deisel sedans. They commented to dad how bloody awful the 2200deisels are. We couldn't understand what they were talking about, so dad chucked 'em the keys and said go for a spin. They both came back muttering something about having to pull the engines from there 2500's when they get home to find out whats wrong with 'em

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Simon's Avatar
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    danielsydney:
    disappro But how do owners feel about all this?

    I own a Renault and they have taken over Nissan basically but i would hate to own a nissan (if i was that way inclined), knowing my company was owned by someone else??Might be just me? disappro
    I cant understand the point of the initial thread. At least with a Citroen C5 there is a good hint of the Citroen avant-garde design in its quirky styling, hydropneumatic suspension etc. Sure they are part of PSA, but there are still threads of Andre's thinking attached.

    Contrast this with Renault, up to the 1930's most models were considered upmarket. Introducing the NN as a competitor with the Cloverleaf Citroen was a way of improving market share. The 1930's cars were basically bland mass market vehicles with little advancement in their design.

    The Renault 4CV was considered as another way of improving market share in an era of austerity and future improvement in the availability of mass transit. Based on the design of the VW beetle, it was another enhancement of design rather than something genuinely new like the Citroen Traction Avant and 2CV.

    Then post WW2 Renault were nationalised, and produced economy cars on a grand scale with great success. Engines of Renault's have been in every position you can think of, as well as front, rear and 4wd.

    So in a nutshell, there really is no thread of Louis Renault in any of today's Renault models. And each individual Renault model is basically its own design with its own innovations or disadvantages. Renault have considerable history but no obvious roots in their current designs, whereas Citroen can trace their current innovative roots back to their very early models. Really it doesn't matter who owns a particular organisation, if their outstanding features are able to be recognised and built on by whoever takes them over all the better.
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  15. #15
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I do agree with you simon totally. The citroen C5 is definatly very citroen totally. The citroen C3 is very citroen also. But the saxo like i said earlier is totally peugeot, and the berlingo is totally peugeot partner like. I dont know how you could possibly be enthusiastic about those models. I could never be excited about the berlingo if i owned one knowing that peugeot has got exactly the same car, same parts, different badge. Maybe its just me. I love the BX, ds and the others they are great cars may even get one one day too. but as for the above mentioned ones i would find it a bit hard for citroenists to think they are really citroen....

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! markm's Avatar
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    At least Peugot is French. I would really be pissed if Toyota had bought them out. Peugot are like a French Holden we are lucky they didn't make the BX rear drive.

    It will be very hard for any car maker to bring out such mold breaking cars as the Traction or the DS maybe we are expecting too much from a company run by accountants. I think they lost their soul or at least had it cut out of them in about.......1974
    Mark McKibbin

  17. #17
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Come on guys, Citroen (PSA) are in the business of staying in business. I don't see what the big deal is with regard ownership of Citroen, as long as the company survives, better that it is in the hands of a 'sympathetic'(having similar disposition and tastes) company like Peugeot than elswhere. Lets face it most manufactures have gone the way of homogenisation, sharing of components is nothing new.

    Sure, die hard enthusiasts would be dissapointed with some of the recent models, mostly because of cost cutting measures which ultimately present the marque in a bad light. Cars like the BX are essentially great little cars let down by poor build quality and cheap plastics. Early cars like the D were if anything, over engineered, and it is a great testinomy that so many survive today, despite some of their owners.

    The current crop from Citroen i.e. especially the C5, are very sophisticated, inovative, advanced pieces of machinery, again, die hard Citroenists would view the styling as conservative, but PSA will be looking for mass appeal. The more they can get out there the sooner we will see the kind of cars 'we' expect from Citroen.

    Daniel, if you look at the world motor industry you might be surprised at who owns who wink

    thats my 2 cents worth...

    Cheers
    Chris
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  18. #18
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    shy I know and i realise that they are in business to make money. Just a pity that Citroen failed in business really. When you say that the bx had poor build quality what do you mean exactly? I was thinking of buying an automatic bx at one stage? I think that the BX was the last real citroen type car. The xantia is quite a good car also but as for the saxo and berlingo not my kind of cars? shy

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
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    Peugeot a French Holden!!!! thats like comparing Napoleon Brandy with VB or Brigette Bardot with Denni Minogue!!!!! Pistols at dawn, 10 paces, turn and fire.....

  20. #20
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Peugeot a French Holden? Well, they both share the lion

    Be grateful that GM didn't takeover Citroen. VW probably would eat up their personality, but at least they'd improve quality.

    Ford seems to be the one to get bought over by. They don't interfere too much, and Jaguar has done better under them. Volvo also is doing mighty fine under them as well, actually, aren't the the best performing unit in PAG?

    The Mondeo & Focus are great cars as well, especially for standard run of the mill ones.

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  21. #21
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I wish car makers would not do that. I cant remember but is it Renault that took over part of Nissan or Nissan took over a bit of Renault?

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
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    or is it like comparing Edith Piaf to Barnsey?
    (The Little Sparrow to the Big Galah), or DeGualle to John Howard? Choose your musket...

  23. #23
    Simon's Avatar
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    danielsydney:
    I wish car makers would not do that. I cant remember but is it Renault that took over part of Nissan or Nissan took over a bit of Renault?
    Takeovers are all part of the business world, economies of scale and all sorts of non-car related stuff. It is all about making better profits, and probably in turn makes better cars too...

    BTW It was Renault that purchased a portion of Nissan.
    1963 Renault R4 Van
    1964 Renault R4
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
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    Takeovers are all part of the business world, ....
    yes one homogenous bland world........sounds like Peter Costello justifying something

  25. #25
    Simon's Avatar
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    stuartb:
    yes one homogenous bland world........
    Not necessarily so, just see what Ford have done with Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, VW with Seat, Audi, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Skoda etc etc.. Left to their own devices the taken over marques would more than likely have disappeared, either good or bad news depending on your point of view.......

    That a Citroen Saxo is a rebadged Pug 106 sort of takes away from the one homogenous bland world statement, they may be the same, but at least there is a lightly veiled choice. Peugeot could have just let the Citroen marque die, like Citroen did with Panhard. To their credit, they have not only maintained the marque, but have allowed some models to retain the Citroen DNA. That Citroen sales have increased in many of their major markets since the PSA takeover shows that many everyday (not marque conscious) consumers desire something that is different but not too different.
    1963 Renault R4 Van
    1964 Renault R4
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