2000 Xantia
  • Help
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: 2000 Xantia

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    386

    Icon5 2000 Xantia

    Putting the 2000 Xantia wagon (Series II - superb car) in for service next week. There is a bit of banging going on up the rear area when going over bumps. I assume this is a sphere issue. Have just spoken to previous first owner and the car wasn't regassed during his ownership. Car has 95k on clock. I'm led to believe some spheres can only be gassed once (quoted about $280 each to replace new & $70 to regas - labour inclusive). Questions please:

    Advertisement


    1. What is the lifespan of spheres (km & years) ?
    2. Which sphere is it that can be regassed more than once?
    3. On a different note, is it worth having the sender unit for dodgy fuel gauge replaced or will a new one be dodgy also?

    Any feedback would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    First thing I'd be doing is getting a comparison of prices from elsewhere!!


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,757

    Default

    Just about everywhere is $35bux each to regass down here. I've had great success with regassed spheres. I've never yet had one 'die'. You can regass them almost indefinatly in my experiance (as long as they don't get to flat). Remembering my CX's are getting onto 30years old ... And I still just regass there spheres

    Banging will not be cause by spheres, if it rides well, most likely the spheres are ok. It's probably just the exhaust banging away (mine touches the bumper bracket when cornering hard ... so quite often ).

    I'm not sure where you are, but I'm willing to pressure test your spheres for free if you anywhere near Ballarat.

    EDIT: OK, your in Sydney, bit of a drive for free sphere pressure testing (I should have guessed your in Sydney, nowhere else would have the ghall to ask $75bux for recharging spheres). Join the Citroen Car club up there, they have all the testing/gassing equipment and can regass your spheres for $15bux each.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    EDIT: OK, your in Sydney, bit of a drive for free sphere pressure testing (I should have guessed your in Sydney, nowhere else would have the ghall to ask $75bux for recharging spheres). Join the Citroen Car club up there, they have all the testing/gassing equipment and can regass your spheres for $15bux each.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Shane - got four words for you - O P S M. Get ya eyes tested ya blind mongrel. Sparkey is MELBOURNE mate, so perhaps it is time to pick on Melbourne specialists instead? Mind you, $280 each is a lot of overkill.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    Shane - got four words for you - O P S M. Get ya eyes tested ya blind mongrel. Sparkey is MELBOURNE mate, so perhaps it is time to pick on Melbourne specialists instead? Mind you, $280 each is a lot of overkill.

    Don't think we're "picking" on anyone apart from someone charging 2 X retail.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    Shane - got four words for you - O P S M. Get ya eyes tested ya blind mongrel. Sparkey is MELBOURNE mate, so perhaps it is time to pick on Melbourne specialists instead? Mind you, $280 each is a lot of overkill.
    ???

    Did he just change his location, I could have swore I saw "Sydney" under his avatar.

    Anyway, Isn't there someone selling new spheres for about $80bux each now ??? I remember reading it somewhere on here.

    Possibly this includes the labour of changing the spheres too... Let see, 10minutes tops to remove all the wheel spheres .... Hmm.... about $1000bux an hour anyone I could understand if it was slightly more expensive to remove rear CX/GS spheres and the XM V6 main accumulator.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    495

    Default

    $70 per corner to swap/regas? - I suppose they reckon $35 each for the regas, 15 mins a corner (seriously, who's going to do the whole job in 10 minutes flat if they are being paid by the hour!!) at $110 an hour, thats $250, plus GST is $275, divide by 4 thats $68.75.
    Assuming its inclusive of labour....

    But $280 each new

    In my experience, 95K in 6 years without a regas would suggest they might be past their prime.
    John

    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup - French Racing Blue
    2008 BMW 325i M-sport steptronic sedan - Alpineweiss
    2010 BMW 320d Touring Innovations - Space Grey

  8. #8
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    The way the regas con works is that they quote you a figure to regas which is supposedly for the gas and the time taken to do the actual regassing.
    Then say you take the car in at 2pm, they remove the spheres, take them to the regasser, regas then refit to the car and if we say the job ends at 4 pm, when they have all fitted and car pumped back up and ready to go, they then charge you for 2 hours labour over and above the price quoted for the regas so effectively they charge for labour twice.
    Accoding to sparkey, they have included labour in the regas so it would be interesting to see how they seperate the labour of R & R from the labour involved in the test and regassing.
    Been there, done that; they get you every time.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! sdabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    216

    Default

    You are being charged way too much for those new spheres. Do a search to find the discusion on prices of spheres available in Melbourne. I got my last one from GSF and that ended up being a bit less than $90- delivered to my door.

    Apparently some later Citroens were fited with triple membrane spheres on the front wheels. The membranes are brittle and tend to be destroyed if the sphere goes flat, this could be what they are banging on about when they advise that some can't be re-gassed. I am being as charitable as I can. Go elsewhere!

    regards
    sean
    _____________________
    1996 XM 2.1 TD Exclusive

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    169

    Default

    On the flip side, the multilayer diaphrams do last an awful long time.... 5 years with less than 10% pressure loss is normal, and 10 years before they're getting low enough to need replacing is common.... how many of us would keep the car for 10 years ? With that kind of lifespan who needs to regass them I fully expect the multilayer diaphram spheres on the front of my Xantia to last the forseeable length of time that I'm likely to keep the car....

    Regards,
    Simon
    Last edited by Mandrake; 2nd March 2006 at 10:14 PM.
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Yes Simon,

    The original dual layer spheres on the front of my 1997 Xantia were over 40 bar when I last checked them - they have even outlasted the first set of strut mounts. However, I have heard that once they start to lose pressure more quickly, a regas doesn't keep them up for long. My Mechanic recommends replacing them rather than trying to get extra life by regassing.

    As for the monolayer spheres which lose pressure from gas permeating through the membrane seem to be able to be regassed until they are about 20 years old so long as you catch them in time - not below 10 bar.

    When my Xantia was 5 years old we travelled down to Tassie for the Cit-in. After some real boing boing violent bounce stuff from the rear over certain bumps on the way down, we tried to get new shperes fitted in Melbourne. Of course there were no Xantia wagon rears in stock in Melbourne so we had to get some replacements fitted on the way back north courtesy of Paris Motors. The remaining pressure in those rears was about 8 bar but they have been regassed and used for 18months or so once already.

    So good luck

    Ken W

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W
    Yes Simon,

    The original dual layer spheres on the front of my 1997 Xantia were over 40 bar when I last checked them - they have even outlasted the first set of strut mounts.
    Same here. When I was chasing very harsh ride in the front of mine and didnt have enough diagnostic tools to measure the original ones properly, I got a pair of nearly new second hand ones as replacments, later on when I was able to pressure test them I found the 4 year old ones I got as replacements were exactly on the correct pressure of 45 bars, while the original 8 year old ones were only down to just under 40... So I guess I have a spare pair now

    It also means those spheres effectively outlasted both the strut tops (which were replaced just before I bought the car last year as they were nearly stuffed) and the strut cylinders, which I'm about to replace
    However, I have heard that once they start to lose pressure more quickly, a regas doesn't keep them up for long. My Mechanic recommends replacing them rather than trying to get extra life by regassing.
    Yes, thats right, the key phrase is "once they start to lose pressure more quickly". There are three layers, the outer two layers are the same material as normal spheres and porous (but also nice and flexible) and then there is a very thin middle layer of less flexible but non-porous material.

    Once this non-porous middle layer cracks, the spheres effectively become "normal" spheres and start leaking at a rate dictated by the normal porous layers, but furthermore any sharp edges where the middle layer is cracked will cause accelerated wear of the other layers and eventual puncture due to mechanical rubbing.

    So if you gas them before the middle layer cracks, you should be fine, but there is no easy way of knowing when this is, unless you know the history of the spheres and check their pressure periodically, which I guess is why sphere gassers refuse to regas them.
    As for the monolayer spheres which lose pressure from gas permeating through the membrane seem to be able to be regassed until they are about 20 years old so long as you catch them in time - not below 10 bar.
    Depends on where they're used - it's not the absolute pressure that matters, but rather the extent to which the diaphrams are folded back and creased IMHO.

    With very low gas pressure and high oil pressure the diaphram gets folded back on itself and in extreme cases becomes creased. This sharp bending is what I believe fatigues the diaphram.

    So the higher the normal operating oil pressure, the higher the minimum "safe" gas pressure, and the more often you regass them to keep their pressure from falling too much, the longer they last...

    Regards,
    Simon
    Last edited by Mandrake; 3rd March 2006 at 07:50 AM.
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! sdabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    216

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sdabel

    Apparently some later Citroens were fited with triple membrane spheres on the front wheels. The membranes are brittle and tend to be destroyed if the sphere goes flat, this could be what they are banging on about when they advise that some can't be re-gassed. I am being as charitable as I can. Go elsewhere!
    I just re read this and realised that it reads like I am being critical of the triple membrane spheres. This was not my intention, I was passing judgement on the price of a sphere being quoted.

    If anyone knows where I can get triple membrane spheres in Australia I would love to hear from them...

    regards
    sean
    _____________________
    1996 XM 2.1 TD Exclusive

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hampton Park
    Posts
    523

    Default

    Well I am intrigued by this sphere stuff as I have never owned a cit until I purchesed the xantia.
    My cit has a sort of rattle in the front end when the car goes over small bumps, the ride seems super smooth but I have nothing else to compare with. I assumed it was an exhaust rattle as that is what it sounds like. How often should the sheres be checked? Who can check the spheres in Melbourne or Ballarat (I travel there quite a bit)? Is it possibly the suspension components them selves are worn as when I brake so hard the ABS works the same rattle appears as the brakes release and bite again?

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman
    Well I am intrigued by this sphere stuff as I have never owned a cit until I purchesed the xantia.
    My cit has a sort of rattle in the front end when the car goes over small bumps, the ride seems super smooth but I have nothing else to compare with. I assumed it was an exhaust rattle as that is what it sounds like. How often should the sheres be checked? Who can check the spheres in Melbourne or Ballarat (I travel there quite a bit)? Is it possibly the suspension components them selves are worn as when I brake so hard the ABS works the same rattle appears as the brakes release and bite again?
    Hi Sherman,

    I can check the sphere's for you for free (note: pencil in about 1hour if it's a VSX). French Connection and Kirk Kirkaldy in Melbourne can test them for free... However being a business they will need to charge your for removal and testing.

    I can show you how to remove them and show you over anything you want to know about the car if you like.

    PM, before you in Ballarat next and I'll make sure I'm home.

    BTW: Keep in mind, I can only test the spheres, I do not have the equipment to recharge them. However if you want to save some $$$, you will know how to unscrew them (really simple) and drop them in for a $35 recharge.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    There's a couple of videos here relating to Cit hydra suspensions that may be of interest.

    http://citroeny.cz/galerie/video.htm

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman
    Well I am intrigued by this sphere stuff as I have never owned a cit until I purchesed the xantia.
    My cit has a sort of rattle in the front end when the car goes over small bumps, the ride seems super smooth but I have nothing else to compare with. I assumed it was an exhaust rattle as that is what it sounds like. How often should the sheres be checked? Who can check the spheres in Melbourne or Ballarat (I travel there quite a bit)? Is it possibly the suspension components them selves are worn as when I brake so hard the ABS works the same rattle appears as the brakes release and bite again?
    Rattle when going over coarse bumps like potholes ? Possibly the rollbar droplink balljoints are worn.

    As for rattle when you brake hard enough to trigger the ABS - not sure about that. I have a worn left hand rollbar droplink balljoint and it clunks a bit over bumps but I havn't noticed any rattles during braking.

    Perhaps get Shane to take it for a spin if you do meet up with him, I'm sure he'll know what it is

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hampton Park
    Posts
    523

    Default

    Thanks fellows,
    I will PM Shane a couple of days in advance when I next travel to Ballarat.
    Cheers,
    Sherman

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman
    Thanks fellows,
    I will PM Shane a couple of days in advance when I next travel to Ballarat.
    Cheers,
    Sherman
    No worries Sherman, I will not be around over easter though (Off to the Cit-in ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •