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  1. #1
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Default XM oil filter

    Hello all,

    It's time to change the oil in my XM v6 (12v). Is the oil filter something I can get just by waltzing into my local Bursons or some such, or is it a specialty item that I have to order through a Citroen specialist?

    (Any oil recommendations while we are at it?)

    Thanks,
    Roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson
    Hello all,

    It's time to change the oil in my XM v6 (12v). Is the oil filter something I can get just by waltzing into my local Bursons or some such, or is it a specialty item that I have to order through a Citroen specialist?
    Why not just waltz in and find out...

    Seriously though, it's extremely unlikely for it to be a "specialty" item, I've never had any trouble getting Xantia ones, or GS ones for that matter, years ago.

    One thing that can be helpful is to know which PSA engine code it is and what models of Peugeot share the same engine, as occasionally some stockists list Peugeot and not Citroen. For example the Xantia's stable mate is the 406, and shares many of the same engines.

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

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    Fellow Frogger! Jack Z's Avatar
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    Roger,

    This is by far th ebest web site for reference and has a stack of corss refernce and model applications:-

    http://www.filtrauto.com

    Purflux Part Numbers for XM V6:-

    AIR A893
    OIL L8880A
    FUEL EP90C


    Oil filter is common to:-

    Xantia V6 3.0l
    Pugeot 406 3.0 V6
    Pugeot 605 3.0 V6

    Air Filter is common to:-

    Pugeot 605 3.0 V6


    Fuel Filter common to:-

    Alfa Romeo
    165
    90
    75

    Pug
    405
    605

    Most 3; 5; 7; series BMW
    BX TZI Hatch
    BX TRI Hatch
    GS C-Matic

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It's easy for me ... Infact I have about 10filters on the shelf in the shed ...

    You see, CX's (all of them, early petrol, late petrol, diesel, GTi, Turbos), BX's, Xantias ... They all use the same filter

    If anyone in the Ballarat area needs a filter, they can grab one from me !

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  5. #5
    UFO
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    And I have been using the Xantia version on the XM for ages. Works fine.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Z
    Roger,


    This is by far the best web site for reference and has a stack of corss refernce and model applications:-

    http://www.filtrauto.com

    Purflux Part Numbers for XM V6:-

    AIR A893
    OIL L8880A
    FUEL EP90C
    Thanks for that. I looked up that site and the oil filter is actually LS880A.

    I went to SuperCheep and AutoBran. SC guys were pleasant and tried to help but couldn't, and the pushy little AB man tried to palm me off with a Ryco Z142A that fits CX and BX and 4cyl Pugs (must be the one Shane has 10 of!). Then I went to Bursons. The man there looked up www.rycofilters.com.au (much more comprehensive than the catalogue and I should have done it myself first) and viola! Z305 fits Xantia V6 (and 406 and 605 V6, but no mention of XM). My Z305 is now on its way down from Echuca.

    Roger

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yeah Z142A fits the CX's, BX's, Xantias etc.....

    The ones I have are Purflux.... Um hang on there the french competition to purflux that Dave was selling, but I can't remember the name.

    I'd order in 1/2dozen and stick on the shelf That way your covered for about 3years. I bought 10 of them at a cheap price 'cos all my cars use the same filter !

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    UFO
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    You can also use a Purflux LS923 or equivalent. Been using them for ages on the XM.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  9. #9
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    You can also use a Purflux LS923 or equivalent. Been using them for ages on the XM.
    Hmmm, that Purflux LS923 cross references to Ryco Z543, which sounds nothing like the Z305 I have just put on my XM. The Z305 is long and fairly skinny, yet the Purflux LS880A that was on the car is medium length and quite large in diameter. And now Craig, you tell me about a different filter again. What size is it?

    That Z305 cost me $30, pretty outrageous for a spin-on oil filter. I suspect that an LS880A from one of the usual suspects might even be cheaper as well as being more correct. Next time!

    Roger

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    UFO
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    The LS923 is a smaller filter that does also fit the Xantias. I usually change filter and oil every 15k km at the most. The filters cost a little over $20 each.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  11. #11
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    The LS923 is a smaller filter that does also fit the Xantias. I usually change filter and oil every 15k km at the most. The filters cost a little over $20 each.
    The Sydney specialists who did all the work on my car immediately before I bought it last August charged $22 for the Purflux LS880A they installed. This is about the same as you quote for the smaller LS923. I've just hit the Purflux website mentioned by Jack Z. The LS923 you have been using is 89mm long and 76mm diameter, and is specified for a range of Citroen engines with a maximum power output of around 100kW (but in 4cyl Peugeots up to 130kW, e.g. 206 180). The LS880A that the site specifies for an XM is larger, 97mm long and 86mm diameter, and is specified for the Citroen and Peugeot V6 engines up to 150kW, including our XMs.

    Given the price is about the same, you might be better off upgrading to a larger filter, especially if you use a fairly long filter change interval. I've done 14,000km in the 6 or 7 months I've had mine, and I reckon there are only so many cold starts you can do in that time (which is what I reckon is the critical thing an oil has to do). I reason every 6 months is not too long an interval for an oil and filter change, especially if you use a good oil. The Sydney specialists who worked on my car used Penrite HPR30, which is 20W-60 and SM/CF rated, and I see no reason to change that. I have not added any oil since I bought the car and after 14,000km the oil level gauge was less than a quarter of the way down from the top. I have, however, noticed that on a really hot day if I come to a stop after a long run the low oil pressure warning light comes on.

    Roger

  12. #12
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    The LS923 is a smaller filter that does also fit the Xantias. I usually change filter and oil every 15k km at the most. The filters cost a little over $20 each.
    This is the same filter used on virtually all the late model PSA 2.0L or larger cars, for example the 206, 307, 406, etc. Peugeot (and CitroŽn) part number is 1109.T0 (but if you open the box it's a Purflux LS923), and is usually from $23-26, depending on which Pug or Cit dealer you waltz on in to. If I'd paid more for a non-genuine one from SuperCheap/Autobarn/Repco I'd be feeling ripped

    Alas, I guess we don't all have the "luxury" of having one nearby.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
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    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Roger,

    20-60 grade oil Gee's that's really thick. I thought the V6's needed to run a really thin oil .... Infact the 24valve V6's need 0-40 oil (or something silly like that, it'd run like water when cold).

    I thought the 15-50 Shell Helix I was running in my cars was a little to thick too

    As for the oil pressure, remember the DS/CX oil pressure switch problems .... It's not dripping is it ?? Ready to blow it's center out (the Xantias was dripping when I purchased it too ... Why do Citroen use such cr@p quality oil pressure switches).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    This is the same filter used on virtually all the late model PSA 2.0L or larger cars, for example the 206, 307, 406, etc. Peugeot (and CitroŽn) part number is 1109.T0 (but if you open the box it's a Purflux LS923), and is usually from $23-26, depending on which Pug or Cit dealer you waltz on in to. If I'd paid more for a non-genuine one from SuperCheap/Autobarn/Repco I'd be feeling ripped

    Alas, I guess we don't all have the "luxury" of having one nearby.
    David Cavanagh is selling the French equivelant to the Purflux for $10bux each if you buy 10 ....... Guess who has 10 of them in there shed now ). The Z142a is avaliable everywhere for the 2litre cars. It's not expensive, probably $15bux or less from your local supermarket/Big W store.

    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I've only just had a quick look at this; 20W60??????????scarey stuff in a multi valve engine, particularly one that had a reputation for taking out cam lobes overseas and was in part responsible for the development of 0W weighted oils as part of the remedy.
    Do I read it right when you say "14,000 klms and it hasn't burnt a drop" to indicate that it hasn't had an oil change in 14K klms? I think you need to do some serious investigating into what is recommended and why, and if it hasn't had a change in 14K I'd be doing a couple in quick succession to not only get the treacle out, but to wash out the varnish and other rubbuish that will by now be growing inside that engine. I take it from what Shane says that it's a 24 valve engine. If so, you need to run as thin an oil as it will take as these multi valve engines have oilways running all over the place and as we discovered on a 16V version of a BX engine, the oilways were so clogged that we had to have the ends drilled out of some to be able to clean them properly and plugs fitted when reassembled as even using proper industrial engine cleaning equip,ment couldn't shift the rubbish.
    As regards these filters, I know on the BX there's a filter that is larger in diameter that will fit some models but not others.
    I got trapped down the Gold Coast doing a filter change on a car serviced by a "professional" that was supposedly changed every 8,000 klms, however, the car had done over 48,000 since it had a battery explode and when I went to remove it, I found it still had acid corrosion all over it and was rusted onto the block. After literally chiselling it out by which time no numbers were legible, I managed to get a Ryco that was recommended. I spent the next hour convincing myself I was going loco as I couldn't get it to screw on (at 10pm incidentally and I still had a 400 klms trip home) and eventually got a light and a mirror in there and discovered it was fouling on the cooler for the oil filter or a bolt attached to it. I checked it against my Xantia and discovered it was slightly larger, so as I'd only fitted the Xantia filter the previous day, I swapped it across and found that whilst it fitted the Xantia no problem, there was no way this model would fit a BX. I'd suggest you checj carefully to be sure any filter with an external diameter any larger than the one currently fitted will physically fit, before it becomes a case of "waiting till they open Monday morning" to get your car back on the road.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Let's not get hysterical here.

    It's a 12 valve V6 engine.

    The owner's manual says to use 10W-40 or 15W-40. Have recommendations changed since then? Is 20W-60 really too heavy for it? If others with that engine can tell me what oil they use I would appreciate it. I did ask for oil recommendations in my initial post but none were offered. So I used what the Sydney specialists who did the last oil change told me they used.

    I am the one who did 14,000km before changing the oil, not the previous owner. I did it in 6 months. Lots of long trips, as well as around town. It's a high quality oil and ought to be able to hold itself together over that period.

    Roger

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'm not getting hysterical, but you might if you ever see what it's done to your engine.

    Why not simply refer to Penrite if you must use their oils?

    http://www.penrite.com.au/nextpage.p...=97&x=319&y=20

    As you see, it's a far cry from what you've used and I doubt there's an oil manufacturer in the World who'd be brave enough to tell you their mineral based oil is good for 14K klms.
    The oil besides being degraded by this time would also be full of acids, condensation and metal filings and not conducive to longeivity of engines.
    Just remember, the guy who told you to run your car on treacle possibly also recommends Dex3 in the transmission and still wants to argue he's right and Citroen and ZF are wrong.
    I just hope that by changing to the true recommendtions you don't suddenly get a few nasty surprises.
    As regards the filters, I'd suggest you also get a proper recommendation as filters have a by-pass valve in them which operates above a certain pressure and if that is passed, the filter then sends unfiltered oil through your engine rather than jam up and blow the engine due to lack of lubrication.
    These can range from in some cases with Citroens, 5 psi to 30 psi I have ben told by people who sell filters.
    I just hope that using that thick stuff, this hasn't already been happening due to the thick oil as we had a case with a CX where we ran the same oil as you are in a GTi that was being dyno tuned and the problem that developed was the "O" ring blew out of the filter due to the pump trying to pump this thick stuff through and drained the sump within seconds,and is one reason why I have never used Penrite 30 in a Citroen since. We changed to a standard 10W40 and cured the problem.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  18. #18
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    The Z142a is avaliable everywhere for the 2litre cars.
    Ryco's own web site state it's a Z543 (and definitely not a Z142a) for the applications I'm talking about, but I suspect our definitions of late model are slightly different.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
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    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I'm not getting hysterical, but you might if you ever see what it's done to your engine.
    Now you're getting me worried Alan

    I've recently just put 20W-50 into my Xantia, without, I guess, giving it a lot of thought. It's the 2 litre petrol 8 valve model.

    Should I be panicing and replacing it ASAP or should I just be replacing it with a different grade next time a change is due ? If so what grade ? I have to confess to not really understanding the finer points of the different grades of oils and knowing which one to choose even after doing a bit of reading up on it...

    Would somebody in the know like to make a specific oil recommendation for that engine for New Zealand conditions? (Preferably something from the Castrol range, which is the most readily available where I am, but other brand equivalent types would be good to know as well...)

    Regards,
    Simon
    Last edited by Mandrake; 5th March 2006 at 02:17 PM.
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  20. #20
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Simon,

    I'd say you'd be pretty close to being right as it's your summer and so it would be about borderline to the top end recommended.
    I use a 10W40 semi synthetic in my Xantia 8 valve and in the past month, I did almost 3000 klms in some of the harshest conditions possible.
    The first trip was almost 2000 klms with 5 adults and so much junk that we took 2 pineapples down and gospel truth, we had to break the tops off to fit them in and this was done averaging in places 130 kph and in temperatures that ranged from late 30s up to 50 at one place and only stopped for about 10 - 15 minutes when we did. The other 1000 was done with a trailer in tow; empty one way and full the other and again, running around 100 - 120 most of the way and again, done in ne day, so my cars have to be capable of doing hard work without stuffing up. I haven't used a drop of oil nor do I have any funny noises and it's got around 230K klms on the speedo.
    I think you'll find GTX3 is the recommended oil for yours with Castrol.
    In Rogers case, what concerns me is that they reckon a 10W 40 and he's been running 20 low end (double the recommended) and 60 top end (50% over the recommended) and if he did this over 6 months, so he's been running thick oil even in winter months which is when normal procedure is to go lighter in colder weather for reasons of circulation and he's run it for about 3 times the recommended distance as well.
    It's always been a bit of a fettish of mine to try to run on as light an oil as is practical due to the modern engine using the oil as a coolant as well as lubricant and the tolerances and designs of modern engines makes them more able to handle thinner oils than the old puchrod varieties. Latest thinking is down to 0W30. Funny part is we assume that thin oils makes them leak, yet my 16V used to leak like seive through the rocker cover on 10W40 yet is bone dry on the 0W40 I presently use.
    I use a locally produced oil in the Xantia nd the BX wagon but bought some Peezoil 0W40 on special a while back and run the 16V on that.
    Prior to that, I was a bit of a fan of Shell semi-synth as I understand PeterT is also.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  21. #21
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    So the oil I'm using may be too thick for cold winter starts then ? I do less than 5000Km a year, so I really need a grade of oil that is suitable for both our summer and winter...(if thats possible )

    I notice the owners manual recommends 10W40 or 15W40, but it doesn't say what countries that is for, and then goes on to list a whole bunch of others on a temperature graph...

    So what would be the pros and cons of 10W40, 10W50, 15W40, 15W50 ?

    Is it possible to describe in a few simple words the meaning of both numbers ?

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The lower number is the viscosity when cold, the higher number the viscosity when warm.... So 0-60 would run like water when cold, and be thick like molasis when warm (or gearbox oil if you like).

    I do lots of cold start so a nice thin oil is very important. I use 15-50 as the CX is old tractor technology that is 21years old... Also the old 8valve turbo'd motor isn't a modern high clearance precision built motor.... It's design can be dated back to the 30's.

    seeya,
    Sane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    The lower number is the viscosity when cold, the higher number the viscosity when warm.... So 0-60 would run like water when cold, and be thick like molasis when warm (or gearbox oil if you like).
    Err, I havn't heard of ANY oil that is thiner at cold temperatures than hot ?
    I do lots of cold start so a nice thin oil is very important. I use 15-50 as the CX is old tractor technology that is 21years old... Also the old 8valve turbo'd motor isn't a modern high clearance precision built motor.... It's design can be dated back to the 30's.
    "high clearance" ?

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The only oil that isn't thinner when cold is a really old oil ... they are the one viscosity eg: SAE 30 ..... it's *always* viscosity 30.... No the modern oils are different when hot and cold. eg: my cars run 15-50, so it's 15 grade (ie: thinish) when cold, but quite thick when hot. The 20-60grade oil Roger is using would suit a very worn old '50s technology 7litre V8 as used in old yank tanks.... To use it in a modern V6 engine is asking for big problems. It's simply way to thick.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Take a read here:

    http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbi...oil_bible.html

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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