Buying BX16valve
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Default Buying BX16valve

    Ok Im going to look at a 16 valve today and what common faults should I be looking for? How should these engines sound on start up I really am clueless on these cars and any help would be tops.

    Dan

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    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Look for leaks of any description, they can be the bane of your life on these due to being hard to access to cure properly. Some small seepages are the nature of the beast, but puddles can be a bit expensive if you don't DIY.
    Engines can be slightly tappety when cold for about 2 minutes due to hydraulic tappets, oil shouldn't be above 10W40 if 20W50 has been used (check service records) chances sre they're trying to hide something and in any case high revving 16V engines were never designed to run on that treacle (I run 0W40 in mine as an example) so as a result, if eber work is done on the car in the future, you're going to find a lot of oilways, gallets etc varnished up and possibly end up with a jingly sounding engine.
    Clutch can be sus if it's been constantly booted along, ABS get to a bit of grass somewhere get above 10kph and flatten brake pedal and it should chatter underfoot (common trick removing the bulb in ABS warning on dash) watch for drop in oil pressure when hot accompanied by top end rattles as this can be buckets in the hydraulic tappets worn. These cost around $135 each (multiply by 16 to see why I say check them)
    Watch temperature particularly if you give it a bit of a run and then go into a traffic situation; they have been known to hit 110 on the temp gauge before the fans cut in. Can be easily fixed but preferrable if it doesn't have to be.

    Apart from that, just check it over like any other BX


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Where can I find BX 16valve engine bay photo's of different year models
    And what is the best work shop manual so I can learn how this cit tick's?

    Daniel S
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    If your after a 'fun' Cit with some grunt that'll be familiar.... Especially one that may well be a 'toy' car like a BX16valve, why don't you look at the white CX GTi Turbo II for sale in Melbourne. Apparantly it's getting quite cheap now. I've never stighted the car, but apparantly it has the 'usual' CX issues, however is mechanically really good (the turbo donk in it is just a progression of the DS motor ... so will be very familiar ... You going to be amazed at the grunt the modified DS motor give with a turbo attached ... It's MUCH faster than the locally sold BX16valves).

    As a bonus you have a proper full sized car that you can fit bugger all into, that can tow caravans, trailers etc.....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! tlampre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSvensson
    Where can I find BX 16valve engine bay photo's of different year models
    And what is the best work shop manual so I can learn how this cit tick's?

    Daniel S
    I've found mechanical pictures of any type of BX hard to find, but the 16v may be easier as it's more the ort of thing people are inclined to show off, but only after they've modified them.

    The Haynes manual is the only off-the-shelf thing you can buy but it's well nigh useless for any specific BX as it tries to cover every model except the diesel.

    I've been collecting stuff off eBay, most of it is in German or French but the pictures are still useful, especially the exploded diagrams. French engineering terms are often easy to translate as the English terms are often derived from French anyway. I'm beginning to think German is phonetic, anything that sounds like 'kerplunk' refers to the clutch...

    Of course, if you want pics *now* you're stuck with Google et. al. Good luck, if you find a really good source please post it, I haven't had much success.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    If your after a 'fun' Cit with some grunt that'll be familiar.... Especially one that may well be a 'toy' car like a BX16valve, why don't you look at the white CX GTi Turbo II for sale in Melbourne. Apparantly it's getting quite cheap now. I've never stighted the car, but apparantly it has the 'usual' CX issues, however is mechanically really good (the turbo donk in it is just a progression of the DS motor ... so will be very familiar ... You going to be amazed at the grunt the modified DS motor give with a turbo attached ... It's MUCH faster than the locally sold BX16valves).

    As a bonus you have a proper full sized car that you can fit bugger all into, that can tow caravans, trailers etc.....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    His still trying to sell it?
    My brother needed a lift to wagga to pick up a swift gti a while back turned out that the CX Turbo for sale was owned by his father , he told me its history and it has a seriouse case of cancer its a English salty.
    I would not have 10-15 gees for that at the moment (timeing again) we already have a D project thats costing$$$$ in new parts full refurbish

    Dan
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSvensson
    Where can I find BX 16valve engine bay photo's of different year models
    This is all I have....

    My engine bay;

    http://www.beecee.net/bxforsale/thumbnails/img_0326.jpg

    and a few pics of a BX that rocked up at FCD2004 (unsure what year model);

    http://www.beecee.net/bx/enginebay/

    ....and just because I forgot it was on my webspace and it looks pretty cool, some pics of my reconditioned head;

    http://www.beecee.net/bx/head/

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlampre
    I've found mechanical pictures of any type of BX hard to find, but the 16v may be easier as it's more the ort of thing people are inclined to show off, but only after they've modified them.

    The Haynes manual is the only off-the-shelf thing you can buy but it's well nigh useless for any specific BX as it tries to cover every model except the diesel.

    I've been collecting stuff off eBay, most of it is in German or French but the pictures are still useful, especially the exploded diagrams. French engineering terms are often easy to translate as the English terms are often derived from French anyway. I'm beginning to think German is phonetic, anything that sounds like 'kerplunk' refers to the clutch...

    Of course, if you want pics *now* you're stuck with Google et. al. Good luck, if you find a really good source please post it, I haven't had much success.
    If its in French thats cool my father and his familie migrated here in 1969 so if theres something in french,belgian etc would find it good help

    Daniel S
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSvensson
    His still trying to sell it?
    My brother needed a lift to wagga to pick up a swift gti a while back turned out that the CX Turbo for sale was owned by his father , he told me its history and it has a seriouse case of cancer its a English salty.
    I would not have 10-15 gees for that at the moment (timeing again) we already have a D project thats costing$$$$ in new parts full refurbish

    Dan
    Not sure if it's true but I've heard he'll accept around $5-6000 bux..... They rust underneath. I wouldn't hesitate if I had the $$$ (you see that local cars are all good underneath). I'd simply replace all the rusty bits, by drilling out the spotwelds on both rusty car and local car, then swapping Fill the holes with the MIG and you have an invisible repair

    Lots of work, but very fullfilling and it would solve the issue once and for all (no bodging of the existing rusty parts).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Good choice fella, BX16V are excellent cars by any standard - a real engine with a handling package to match. As far as performance goes it will murder a CX Turbo on the corners and has much better balance and poise on the road than a CX. If you've got tires to match you can drive around the outside of performance commodores in the wet with a 16V.

    Look at engine history as per usuall, cam belt replacment in particular, maintenace is everything. Make sure the box is not notchy when cold, and I would do a compression check for peace of mind. There are a few little things that screw up on models with over 150,000ks. I would take my time and look for the very best you can find and pay a little more in the purchase price rather than a whole lot more later on to sort it out.

    Chris.
    1964 Type 3 Squareback. 1974 L Bug.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Not sure if it's true but I've heard he'll accept around $5-6000 bux..... They rust underneath. I wouldn't hesitate if I had the $$$ (you see that local cars are all good underneath). I'd simply replace all the rusty bits, by drilling out the spotwelds on both rusty car and local car, then swapping Fill the holes with the MIG and you have an invisible repair

    Lots of work, but very fullfilling and it would solve the issue once and for all (no bodging of the existing rusty parts).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Well Shane I ll probely get shot for telling this but..
    When I was about 15 learning my bricklaying off my uncle(I lived at there house during the week it was easier) who was a crazy french man legend was a CX freak at times there were 5 rego'd on street one for every day of the week (mmmm which colour?) evan the work truck was a CX (mixer,bara's,14 3m planks,hand tools ,cement 15-20 bags and etc no probs) My Aunt's used to hit the roof it just looked like carnage and when he tried selling them no one wanted then 90's.
    Drastic times turn to drastic matters so out came the block busters,grinders and sledge hammers some of these cars where perfect!!! and bit or chunk by chunk was dropped on the building site till there was nothing except mostly mech parts to keep 3 going only.
    You see all my family have done this in france since the early 50's cause after the war there was no money you couldnt evan buy fuel cause there was none anywhere , so there where cars being dumped all over the country side. And they where axed apart for scrap metal, my grand father and uncle before they passed told me so much. Evan Bugatti's and some brands I cant remember
    When I think about it I did exactly the same thing with the CX's but like then they where worth nothing but scrap.

    Daniel S
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    This is all I have....

    My engine bay;

    http://www.beecee.net/bxforsale/thumbnails/img_0326.jpg

    and a few pics of a BX that rocked up at FCD2004 (unsure what year model);

    http://www.beecee.net/bx/enginebay/

    ....and just because I forgot it was on my webspace and it looks pretty cool, some pics of my reconditioned head;

    http://www.beecee.net/bx/head/

    Thanks Brenden
    These pics are very usefull in comparo
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Dunham
    Good choice fella, BX16V are excellent cars by any standard - a real engine with a handling package to match. As far as performance goes it will murder a CX Turbo on the corners and has much better balance and poise on the road than a CX. If you've got tires to match you can drive around the outside of performance commodores in the wet with a 16V.

    Look at engine history as per usuall, cam belt replacment in particular, maintenace is everything. Make sure the box is not notchy when cold, and I would do a compression check for peace of mind. There are a few little things that screw up on models with over 150,000ks. I would take my time and look for the very best you can find and pay a little more in the purchase price rather than a whole lot more later on to sort it out.

    Chris.
    I agree, around town on sharp corners the light nippy BX will leave the CX, but not once you get away from the very low speed sharp corners ... Ever driven a CX turbo ?? .... Especially a CX turbo wearing proper tyres instead of the god awful TRX cr@p they were fitted with. If not your going to be stunned at the way they handle. Lots of outright grip, hugely less bodyroll than the standard CX (though MUCH more than the 16valve). The limits are so high I'm yet to find them (and this is someone that used to find the limits of a BX19tri just about everytime he drove it ).

    Out on the open road with high speed sweepers, bumps dips, etc.... I think I'd stun a BX16valver driver.... Mid corner traction is just huge

    A CX GTi Turbo, aint no normal CX ... It rides worse than the Xantia hyperactive I have to give you an idea of how much they firmed things up.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Wow, check out the pictures of Brenno's head. Not only is the head a work of art... I'd never realised it actually has 8exhaust ports with an 8 into 1 manifold. No wonder it's so bloody hard to improve on the factory head and exhaust That'd do a racecar justice !

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
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    Shane,

    Yes, have driven both. Understand the points you are makeing.

    Like most of us I drive around town and around the outskirts less often and for me the BX16V is a much better option. It has balance, can be stuffed into a corner too fast and punched out - not too many sweepers around town. I also prefer the light body weight, agility and poise of the BX16V on the road (could do with another 50bhp though). Could happily live with either car and enjoy their respecitve merits given the finances and garage space.

    Chris.
    1964 Type 3 Squareback. 1974 L Bug.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    That head is awesome wow how could you sell it brenno
    Is that exaust manifold standard? pure race track inspired
    Also was there a DOM plate on centre pillar driver's side on your silver one?
    Last edited by PSvensson; 23rd February 2006 at 01:30 PM.
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSvensson
    wow how could you sell it brenno
    Is that exaust manifold standard?
    Yep, thats a standard manifold. Why did I sell it? I actually thought the BX was pretty over-rated from a drivers perspective. I felt it was quite disjointed, as if it didn't flow. If you just had to brake hard, the brakes were superb. If you just had to corner hard, it had a lot of static grip. Combine these together on a twisty mountain road though, and the whole thing fell over. There were occasions where I felt the dynamics were downright scary, so I could never rely on how it reacted when driving hard. I put sticky tyres on mine, and perhaps that exacerbated the apparent lack of finesse, which is odd because the same action on various Peugeot's I have owned/driven did the opposite - better tyres would complement the chassis. Not only that, it didn't even redeem itself as a comfortable daily driver; it was a chore in traffic. The whole thing was a bit of a shock to me too, as I had been a massive fan of the 16v from a young age.

    I think the DOM was late '89. Send a PM to Crosspug if you're curious, he now owns it.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    What the hell is Static grip? GS on roids if you ask me, did you ever try adusting spere presure's

    No I mean was the DOT plate there on the side of the car when you open the drivers side door?
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Default I can drive both

    Guess which one is sitting in the garage The CX is one ballsy bitch Ema Peel where are you or is it Modesty Blaise no need to play boy racer just pass them further up the freeway I forgive her all her imperfections and while we are sharing naughty photos of our cars private parts
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Buying BX16valve-dscf0069-small.jpg  
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I've seen under the bonnet of both a BX16valve and CX turbo ........ I've no qualms at all in stating I'd prefer to work on the CX anyday of the week, for just about anything .... Just look at the space around the motor, if you remove the spare tyre and air-cleaner (fun) there's acres of space around it for you to access just about everything. Not even the fuel pumps an issue on these ones ('cos it's not block mounted).

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/att...0&d=1128865161

    Another big bonus is no cambelt and access issue to get to it. Me, I'd take one of each thanks BX for summer, CX for winter and towing

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 23rd February 2006 at 03:38 PM.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Why would you need to tow?? Cx's make good boats in their own right.

    Dave


  22. #22
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSvensson
    What the hell is Static grip? GS on roids if you ask me, did you ever try adusting spere presure's
    I guess what I meant was, for a 20 year old car it has a lot of pure chassis grip. Introduce any other factors like bumps, camber changes, surface changes or even tightening the line, and I felt it coped quite poorly. FR balance left a lot to be desired too.

    The GS is a far more satisfying drive in my opinion. At least it doesn't pretend to be sporty, but there is an element of a sporty drive albeit in slow motion.

    I tried regassing the spheres in the 16v, which made the car felt a little bit better for a couple of weeks. Then I lashed out and bought brand new spheres. Better, but still disappointing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSvensson
    No I mean was the DOT plate there on the side of the car when you open the drivers side door?
    Aah, honestly I can't remember.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    also check the three oil breather/filler hoses. They need to be in good condition or the engine will cook in its own juices. It's difficult to check the two underneath the inlet manifold. These two will most likely be cracked by now if they haven't been replaced.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  24. #24
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    Be careful, there are some nasty examples out there!

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Oh man looks like some dirty mongrel bought it on the sly/without evan looking, before I could get my deposit to him today too

    Ah well kudos to you mate and good luck with it

    I ll keep you posted
    Last edited by PSvensson; 23rd February 2006 at 06:48 PM.
    1970 ID20 SUPER
    1971 DS21 IE non PALLAS,5 Spd
    1973 DS20 SUPER Singapore model but now an Aust resident(Rebuilding)
    Late 1994 Xantia VSX 5speed (for sale)
    1966 R10 round eye (sombody want to buy?)

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