Bx19TZI vs Bx16v
  • Help
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    169

    Default Bx19TZI vs Bx16v

    Seroiusly besides the body treatments and upgraded g/box on the 16valve what is the advantage of the 16v over the 19TZI?

    I have owned a 19TZI and have also driven a 16v and to be quite honest I found the TZI to be more torquey and responsive, unless I revved the guts out of the 16v it seemed somewhat subdued compared to the TZI, when I read the performance stats (0 to 100km/h) the difference between the 2 is negligible, like 0.1 or 0.2 of a second in favour of the 16v, that's it!

    Advertisement


    so what experiences have you guys had with these 2 vehicles?

    did you notice much difference between them?

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,752

    Default

    You've got it in one... If I ever had another BX it's have to be a 1.7 turbo diesel. There nearly as quick as the aussie sold BX16valves. The 16valve is quite a bit quicker, but the idea is you need to thrash the life out of it ... ie: nearly hit the rev limiter through each gear (which I imagine would get tedious really quickly, I've never driven one for any length of time though).

    I like the low down torque and effortless grunt of the Citroen petrol turbo's. They are built like a turbo motor should be ... ie: all drivability and torque for plodding around (as well as ). They don't come close to the economy returned by that amazing 16valve BX motor (being so well tuned, ported/flowed and designed has the offset of excellent economy ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Shane how much quicker can it be?

    Like I said performance figures from 0 to 100km/h between the 2 is like 0.2sec, hardly much quicker!!!

    The economy of the 19TZI is very good.
    Last edited by raver; 18th February 2006 at 05:06 PM.

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,752

    Default

    Nah your thinking the detuned aussie version.

    Out here there 0-100km/h in over 9seconds (hardly seems worth the extra maitenance effort). The standard overseas BX16valves had 160hp, and did the 0-100 sprint int about 7.8 seconds (ie: as quickly as a CX GTi Turbo or 24valve V6 XM manual ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Nah your thinking the detuned aussie version.

    Out here there 0-100km/h in over 9seconds (hardly seems worth the extra maitenance effort). The standard overseas BX16valves had 160hp, and did the 0-100 sprint int about 7.8 seconds (ie: as quickly as a CX GTi Turbo or 24valve V6 XM manual ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    ....ah well that explains it, I drove the bloody osshhy version!

    so what does it take to bring it up to euro spec?

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,340

    Default

    More compression. Aussie has 9.5:1 cr uk has 10.4:1 cr. Oh and by the way the 16v you drove must have been a dog, my 16v feels much stronger than any of our tri's and tzi (above 3000 revs).

    Dave


  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raver
    ....ah well that explains it, I drove the bloody osshhy version!

    so what does it take to bring it up to euro spec?
    Very common question, best asked to Peter T. I think the cam timing is retarded by 4degrees, they have lower compression, and an ECU that probably has a very different advance/mixture curve.

    BTW: Alan S's son has a guenuine 160hp Series I BX 16valve, so he'd be able to let you know how different it feels.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    More compression. Aussie has 9.5:1 cr uk has 10.4:1 cr. Oh and by the way the 16v you drove must have been a dog, my 16v feels much stronger than any of our tri's and tzi (above 3000 revs).

    Dave
    Geez with 10.4:1 comp. no wonder us poor old ozzies never got the euro spec with our 3rd world quality fuel!

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    We've got 2 16Vs a TZi and a Tri122 auto.

    The 16Vs are pretty much mick and Mike when both stock standard, in fact I was a bit disappointed in the series one when I compared it with my series 2 although I do have suspicions my series 2 may have been "tweaked" before I got it.
    The Tri in the auto goes like the clappers and the night I brought it home from Greenbloods, I did 330 klms (which included driving through the middle of Brisbane) stopped for petrol, stopped for a cuppa and was home in 3 hours 10 minutes, so it's no slouch. The low compression engine might be a different story.
    The comparison between the TZi and the 16V is a strange one to do, in as much as the TZi will hold the 16V for most of the range and in the early stages may even be a slight bit quicker, but the 16V begins to flex its muscle from about 4200 rpm up to 7200 when the rev limiter cuts in ("kemputer says NOooow" - cough)
    Driving a TZi is very much like driving any other nippy 8 valve engine whereas a 16V is a whole new experience. If about to overtake anything (and I do mean anything) the driver needs to keep an eye on the tacho and keep the needle hovering in the 4500 zone regardless of gear. When the opportunity arises, you just floor it and once you get to know your car, you drop into the next highest gear at a speed/revs that allows the engine to start back at the 4500 mark again thereby keeping maximum power under the foot. This will allow you to frighten shit out of a GT-R driver (not beat him but have him looking hard in his rear view mirror) will see a GT-ST off and a Sylvia will disappear through the r/v mirror.
    I recently had an "altercation" with some old white towelling wearing old fart in a wank tank who decided to do the kinds of things people driving wank tanks that really shouldn't be in control of anything more powerful or heavy than a mobility scooter could only do. He was holding me and a lot of other traffic up following a ute. When it came to a stretch where he could overtake/be overtaken, he pulled out and then deliberately sat alongside the cab of the ute doing exactly the same speed so no one could pass. He was constantly looking and smirking in his rear vision mirror deliberately holding up traffic. I took it to 4500, pulled onto the grass and as he took his eyes off the mirror for a second, I hit it and went past so fast he almost fell out the window. I was on the grass, but wasn't speeding, it was just like I leapfrogged him; that's the kind of acceleration they have at that rev range.
    As a round towner in traffic, I would say a TZi/Tri122 auto would be the go. As an allround car but one that does a fair amount of open road work and for someone who likes to drive, a TZi/Tri 5 speed manual but for a fun car but totally unsuitable as a commuter, a 16V.
    Incidentally, since we've had the series one, it has had oversize valves fitted as well as a MoTeC and the limiter increased to I think it's about 7800 and the extra 600 rpm also does make a difference.



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    With all due respects; anyone who can't tell the difference between the two should stick to a battery powered mobility scooter.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    With all due respects; anyone who can't tell the difference between the two should stick to a battery powered mobility scooter.


    Alan S
    I guess what I noticed more was it's lack of power before 4500rpm and because I owned a 19TZI at the time I expected the 16v to have more power throughout the whole rev range which certainly was not the case
    plus it was probably a series1 low comp 16v.

    Are the 16v's really more economical than the TZI's ?

  12. #12
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bristol/England!
    Posts
    1,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raver
    Are the 16v's really more economical than the TZI's ?
    Definately not!!! And, you must only use 98 octane fuel or better!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raver
    I guess what I noticed more was it's lack of power before 4500rpm and because I owned a 19TZI at the time I expected the 16v to have more power throughout the whole rev range which certainly was not the case
    plus it was probably a series1 low comp 16v.

    Are the 16v's really more economical than the TZI's ?
    We can do direct compaisons and often do (taking both cars on trips etc) and the fuel consumption is even stevens until you start to really pedal the 16V, that's when you'll feel a difference. It can get hungry if pushed but fractionally better if nursed.
    The 98 octane caper might hold true for the UK versions but the handbook recommends 93 and over and I find it runs as well on 94/95 octane as it does on PULP, however if I go to Optimax or Ultimate I don't notice a scrap of difference in either performance or economy so to me, it's just a waste of money and given the settings on the ECU, I'd say anyone driving an Aussie specs 16V that reckons it does are really only fooling themselves and wasting money. High compression and/or modified, different story.

    Too many forget when they drive a 16V that it was an engine that was developed to satisfy homolgation requirements for competition in those days, so for road use it had to be tamed. To my knowledge, very few were sold to Citroen enthusiasts when new mainly due to the price tag; they cost about the same price then as a C5 diesel costs now and we're talking 1989 - 94 as a result, they were tailored to a market, namely Yuppies, wives of professional people, bimbos/bit on the side and rich kids and the like. This is borne out by looking at the logbooks and seeing who originally owned the car; in my case it was a record producer in Sydney (who possibly never owned a Cit before or since).
    Overseas as with here, they painted an image of a trophy wife with bottled locks blowing in her face, scarf around the neck, sunnies on top of the head with windows down and sunroof open driving down the social set boulevarde and this was basically the market. Something a bit different, flashy, but quite subdued in a City traffic environment, but capable of scaring the sox off someone at the traffic lights or something that could be driven hard when the husband/boyfriend took it for a spin at the weekend. So if it's driven in a sober manner or like any 8 valve engined car, that is the way it will behave. I know of a few drivers who have admitted to me they have never pushed their cars beyond 4000 rpm (a couple on this board) and used the excuse that "you shouldn't have to drive them like you say to make then perform" which to me is like saying you shouldn't have to put petrol in a car to make the engine run. This is the way they're designed.
    I took a Traffic cop for a hard run in mine a year or so now as he had a sick car and made the comment that he didn't think they were all that great a performer. When we got back, his response was, "Phweww!! Bloody hell. never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine they could go like that!....tell ya what, if I'm ever in the patrol car and I see you speeding, at least I'll know not to waste my time chasing you." Which just about says it all.
    It's all in the driving and a couple on the board here who I've coached on a few tricks have all said the same.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NORTH PERTH W.A.
    Posts
    853

    Icon12 I like my 16v

    But Euro spec would be interesting pistons and ECU plus rebiuld kit and labour maybe more than the car is worth
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,340

    Default

    My current 16v engine rebuild is going to cost double what i paid for the car but it will be worth it

    Dave


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •