Working Under The car
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  1. #1
    Member tom currie's Avatar
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    Default Working Under The car

    i have been reading about the unfortunate accident to the man working under his citroen. be assured that this problem is not restricted to cars with citroen type suspension. i have a rover as well as a cit and we have lost two people in recent times in the same circumstances; relying on the jack while working under the car. one was a leading light in the rover fraternity in the uk. i also remember several years ago there was a major problem with one particular brand of car hoist. i am very wary of those things and always make sure they incorporate a reliable safety locking device before walking under a car hoisted on one of them.

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    In the UK it's not unheard of for poeple that never work on there cars to be crushed by Xantias. (It happens quite often). What happens is the plastic clip that connects the rear height corrector pops off it's linkage. The owners wonder why the back of the car will not lift and look under to see the linkage off ................ What a simple fix plug it back on .......................... Any fool can do that............... As it plugs onto the height corrector however the slightest movement as you push the linkage back on will send the back of the car plumetting to earth

    Not the smartest design using a piece of plastic in the height corrector linkages

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  3. #3
    Member Bob Cav's Avatar
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    Icon6 No Chocks

    Having placed his older G,M,H product on ramps (front wheels only!) and while attempting to remove a gearbox with a sticky imput shaft a neighbour of my ag-ed parents in Sydney having forgotten hand brakes, and chocks, etc; (and having removed tailshaft) vigorous pulling brought said vehicle off ramps ,down onto next door neighbour, 1 hour later his wife heard calls for help, luky not to be killed sever shock and bruising ,,,,,,,,,his luck ,:now: old G,M was a lot higher off the ground than its modern equivalent so what is the message ;,DON'T FORGET TO CHOCK IT! Bob C

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    In the UK it's not unheard of for poeple that never work on there cars to be crushed by Xantias. (It happens quite often). What happens is the plastic clip that connects the rear height corrector pops off it's linkage. The owners wonder why the back of the car will not lift and look under to see the linkage off ................ What a simple fix plug it back on .......................... Any fool can do that............... As it plugs onto the height corrector however the slightest movement as you push the linkage back on will send the back of the car plumetting to earth

    Not the smartest design using a piece of plastic in the height corrector linkages

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Speak of the bloody devil, I gave Angs Xantia a quick wash last night and cycled it from high to low a few times ........... Phone call today "The back of the car is really bumpy and it won't lift...... She's tried moving the height corrector lever around to no avial. Who wants to put $$$$ on I'm about to find out exactly what this plastic linkage bit is all about

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Default

    Hmmm, go carefull then!!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'll just back it's arse end up onto the ramps, it will not get up there with the back on flat (I'd probably need a 8metre runup, I've only got a 5metre runup).

    I've no idea what's going on until I look at it, could just need the linkage lubricated back there.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I'll just back it's arse end up onto the ramps, it will not get up there with the back on flat (I'd probably need a 8metre runup, I've only got a 5metre runup).

    I've no idea what's going on until I look at it, could just need the linkage lubricated back there.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Betcha it is the plastic linkage...

    But after taking the front height corrector and linkage right out of mine I don't believe the "seized height corrector" and "seized linkage" explanation for it jumping off that people in the UK seem to subscribe to....

    I think the answer is much simpler - wear in the plastic cups causing slack together with compacted dirt preventing the balljoint link pivoting freely at the spring end.

    It's always the end that connects to the spring unit that jumps off, and if you study the way it moves the rollbar end of the link moves in an arc and yet the spring end is expected to move in a (more or less) straight line.

    When the rollbar turns towards the spring it pushes in an arc that is trying to pop the link off the balljoint, and its only the tightness of the joint that keeps it on. (Bad design I reckon)

    I replaced the link on the front of mine due to not being happy with the amount of hysteresis in the height correction and found that even at 8 years old the balljoints were VERY slack, and probably on the verge of jumping off even on the front one let alone the back.

    I'd say about 1mm slack in both cups

    The new one clicked into place tight as anything, and there is virtually no slack. (Height correction accuracy did improve a lot too btw)

    I have a new one to put on the rear when I get a chance as well.

    If you look at the spring linkage its all stainless steel including the spring so there is no way it would rust or seize up in NZ or Aus conditions, mine was spotlessly clean and rust free once I brushed off the road dust.

    I bet the plastic link on yours is absolutely caked with hard compacted road dirt though, and this prevents the link from tilting on the front balljoint and forces it off even if there isn't excessive wear. (Of course every time it jumps off you're stretching/wearing the cup too as its only nylon)

    I'd say thoroughly clean that area and check the cups for slack and if they seem slack at all get a new link...

    Regards,
    Simon
    Last edited by Mandrake; 20th February 2006 at 01:33 PM.
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Thanks Simon,

    if there's not much slack there I'll investigate a mechanical way of retaining the ball on cup joint (like the early CX gearchange linkages, they have a pin through them that retains them so they can't seperate).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Well it was exactly what I thought I'd ruled out. I jumped in the car, rapidly slid the height lever from high to low a few times and the bloody car lifted Yeah just a bit of dirt/muck slightly seizing them under the car (this is what I asked Ang to do sure it would fix the problem as it always has in the past on DS's, GS's, CX's BX's ..................... etc....). I put it up on the ramps and gave the linkage at the height corrector a spray with WD40. Found the notorious plastic link ... It seems very tight and secure Talk about an easy 'fix' ....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Interesting.... its hard to see how a bit of dirt could physically stop the linkage working... as that spring is VERY strong, and the rollbar applies a great deal of force to the spring/linkage mechanism.

    Are you sure it couldn't be the height corrector damping chambers clogged up with grit ? My front height corrector was a bit slow and also overshooting, and I took it out and gave it a good clean inside, the area under the washers and inside the damping ports was badly clogged with gritty particles.

    After cleaning it out it responds quickly (about 5 seconds) and corrects without overshooting significantly. I guess the main thing is that you've got it working again, but I wonder if it will happen again ?

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'd put the car on 'low' manaully the night before, the linkages must have slightly seized to the back. I certainly couldn't re-create the problem. I just gave them a spray/clean. I doubt I'll have another problem at all.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Reading your message has jogged my memory a bit....now that I think about it, although my car hasn't done this before, I think that Dad's Xantia did it just once not long after he got it....

    After having the suspension fully down for some maintainence, setting it back to normal height only lifted the front suspension and the back stayed down.

    I immediately had visions of the plastic clip having popped off (after having recently learnt about that problem on the GSF forum at the time....) but setting the height lever to full height lifted the car up and from then on the normal position seemed to be working fine again, and its never done it since to my knowledge.

    And the height corrector linkages are pretty caked with dirt on that car too....so you could be right that it might have just been a build up of dirt...

    Guess we better give that area a good clean to prevent it happening again.

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

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