DS/ID variations - do they make a great difference?
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  1. #1
    Member XantiaHead's Avatar
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    Default DS/ID variations - do they make a great difference?

    Hi folks,

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    As a very happy Xantia owner for the (nearly) 7 years (1999 Xantia SX 5 speed), I am currently mulling over whether to take the plunge and buy a Citroen DS/ID. For some time now, I've been looking at the classifieds (electronic and print), and it seems that your choice is mainly between late model D Specials and DS23 Pallases - in other words, models at either end of the spectrum. With this in mind, my questions are:

    - is the 5 speed box that much more preferable over the 4 speed (I'm not interested in the 3 speed BW auto)

    - is there a preferable engine size - I suppose I'm happy to trade off some performance for smoothness

    - are the benefits of EFI worth the additional complexity?

    Please bear in mind that any DS/ID I bought would be an "occasional" car, and that I would be seeking to maintain the car myself as much as possible (whilst I don't service the Xantia I do all the mechanical work on my Moto Guzzi and Lambretta).

    Thanks for any advice that you can provide.

    Regards,

    Andrew Matusiewicz
    Canberra, ACT

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    They are basically the same car with different trim levels.

    The DS pallas is much nicer IMO and certainly worth the extra $$$.

    None of them are fast, the DS23 ie 5spd will easily keep up with modern traffic, the injection makes a hell of difference to the drivability of the car.

    The 5th gear reduces noise at cruising speed, however the 4spd'er is quite long legged, so you will not miss the 5th cog. You best bet is to drive several of each and see what you preference is

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Hi Andrew,

    - is the 5 speed box that much more preferable over the 4 speed (I'm not interested in the 3 speed BW auto)
    As Shane says - not a huge difference - only in really high speed cruising, which we don't get much chance to do in this country. Early 5 speeds had problem with lubrication of 5th, so you have to be careful there.

    - is there a preferable engine size - I suppose I'm happy to trade off some performance for smoothness
    The DS21 is in my opinion smoother than the 23 - the 23 is stretched a bit too far.

    - are the benefits of EFI worth the additional complexity?
    That's tricky - an extra 20 or so HP, plus more torque a bit lower down, and much easier cold starting for an EFI car - when they are working that are very good - although failures can be expensive (I have had an EFI wiring harness burn out, and a pump go ). Better economy at cruising speed. Major downside is much worse access to the engine and extra heat because of lots of stuff crammed in there.

    I am not all that fussed by a Pallas - more bits to cause more rust and/or get knocked about - my preference is actually a non-Pallas DS, but they are very rare here. The other very good option is a D Super 5 - 21 motor, 5 speed box, and basically a DS21 without a few bits of trim. There is a nice sounding one for sale but it's in Townsville .

    By the end of the run the difference between a D Special and a DS 23 in this country was not all that much - same brakes, turning lights, padding under carpets etc. Only a bigger engine, (mostly) EFI, more stainless bits on the outside and different door trims really. Generally all 23s were 5 speed or Auto (we have almost all the Autos in the world here), but there are few (private import) Hydrauliques here. They fetch a premium.

    There is also a very unmolested - literally "one celebrity owner" as the dealers would say - 1968 ID19b for sale in Sydney, which I went to look at with a friend yesterday - he has decided it is not for him as he wants a daily driver, but it is one of the most remarkably rust free cars I have seen in a long time. It needs a little TLC as it has hardly been used in the last 5 years since the owner can't drive anymore. It had one of the best clutches and gearchanges I have ever experienced in D, and despite the lack of use (spheres hard as rocks) pulled very well, and would make a collector very happy IMHO. The pre 1970 cars rust very much less than the later ones. I can put you in touch with the vendor if you are interested.

    Paul
    Paul Smith

    1974 DS23 EFI BW Auto
    1974 G Special 1220


    http://www.simplicitas.com.au

  4. #4
    Member XantiaHead's Avatar
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    Hi folks,

    (Just back from visiting the parents in Adelaide over the weekend, hence the lack of an earlier response)

    Thanks for your replies, I think I have enough to go on to narrow my choice on what I would like as an initial DS/ID choice.

    Paul, I'll give your offer (of putting me in touch with the owner of the ID19b) some thought. Do you know how much he/she was wanting for the vehicle?

    Cheers,

    Andrew Matusiewicz
    Canberra ACT

    1999 Xantia SX 5 speed

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