GS advice needed.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Default GS advice needed.

    Help!

    The alternator on my GS siezed this morning. I'm thinking that if can get the belt off, I should be able to drive home on the battery (around 20km).

    Any advice / cautions????

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    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Leave before dark

    I'd just cut the belt (access is really poor). There's very little that draws any power on a GS, even the fan is engine driven so you should get home ok.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I once seized an alternator on a Toyota Crown at around Upper Coomera and drove back to Palm Beach just on sundown which would have to be aound 50 klms and the last 25/30 in the dark so needed headlights for a while too.
    All went well until the last couple of miles when I had to keep turning the engine & lights alternatively off and back on again to keep enough power in the system to keep the ignition firing. Fixed alternator and no side effects.
    I don't know how the air cooling operates in the GS but if it's not related to thealternator drive belt, I can't see a problem. If the belt's not too big or too new, just cut the thing off and replace it when you do the alternator, after all if the alternator has seized completely, chances are the belts R/S anyway, so not worth busting fingers taking it off.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Thanks Alan and Shane. I'll chop the belt off drive home before dark!

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  5. #5
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    Hi Andrew,
    that's bad luck. Would help you out with a spare but sadly, GS alternators are one of the few components I don't have.

    I've driven about 40 km in a GS without any charge a couple of years ago. It was at night too so lights were on although mostly freeway so not much brake lights, indicators etc. No major problems- did have to use the same technique as Alan though and switch the lights off a few times which was a bit interesting. For traffic lights, use of handbrake is a good move, as saves 21 watts x 2 for brake lights while you're stopped... Also, if you think your battery may be a bit dodgy, get a jump start and leave the jumper cables on for a few minutes before you crank it over, but you should be fine.

    The auto electrician I spoke to about the fault (internal alternator short of some description) disconnected the field supply wire where it slots into the connector on the alternator casing. It's probably an insulated spade connector at the end of a buff coloured wire. In my case this was vital due to the short. It may not be of any significance to you (as the alternator apparently doesn't have an electrical fault) but obviously the rotor shaft, slip rings and brushes were all designed to carry a current whilst the shaft is spinning and producing voltage. As it can do no harm, you may want to consider disconnecting it anyway, as a precaution.

    There can be a bit of knack changing alternators on a GS (first time took me over an hour) but can do them in 20 minutes easy these days. If you need a hand or advice be in touch; I will be in Hobart later this week too. Good luck,

  6. #6
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    By the way, I may have a second hand alternator belt you're welcome to if you need one. Have a look at this page from the CCCV website for some useful information about removing/repairing GS alternators too:

    http://www.citcarclubvic.org.au/arti...41212000646621
    Cheers,
    Brett

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I don't know how the air cooling operates in the GS but if it's not related to thealternator drive belt, I can't see a problem.
    The fan is right on the end of the crankshaft, no belt needed to drive it The alternator is driven by a relatively small (10mm ?) V belt from a pully just behind the fan blades.
    If the belt's not too big or too new, just cut the thing off and replace it when you do the alternator, after all if the alternator has seized completely, chances are the belts R/S anyway, so not worth busting fingers taking it off.
    Yeah, I'd cut it in those circumstances too. You should be able to take the front air grill off (two screws) and cut it with a big pair of side cutters in between the fan blades.

    By the way it is possible to change an alternator belt without taking the fan off... You undo the bolt that holds the swinging end of the alternator and drop it down so you can free it from the pulley on the alternator, then you can very carefully pass the belt over the blades of the fan one at a time, as the outer half of the blades are very flexible and can bend enough to get the belt past around the edge.

    There is a small risk that the blades will have gone hard with age and one may break thus unbalancing the fan, so cutting it is probably the safer option when away from home....

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett R
    The auto electrician I spoke to about the fault (internal alternator short of some description) disconnected the field supply wire where it slots into the connector on the alternator casing. It's probably an insulated spade connector at the end of a buff coloured wire. In my case this was vital due to the short. It may not be of any significance to you (as the alternator apparently doesn't have an electrical fault) but obviously the rotor shaft, slip rings and brushes were all designed to carry a current whilst the shaft is spinning and producing voltage. As it can do no harm, you may want to consider disconnecting it anyway, as a precaution.
    Good point The field winding will use power from the battery even though the alternator is not spinning ! And therefore run the battery flat faster than strictly necessary... I'd disconnect it...

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Thanks Brett, that info sheet was really useful.

    The belt was nearly new, so rather than cut it I simply backed off the tension until it slipped without squealing. I then disconnected the field winding and drove it home- no problems at all.

    I borrowed the alternator of my wagon- had it out in 10min.
    Getting the old one out of the sedan was a real pain due to the anti polution gear. Had to wiggle the alternator around to get to access to the bolt which connects the anti polution tube to the inlet manifold... all in ice cold Tassy rain!

    The whole exercise to around 90min...

    Now to re-build the old one.... Anyone know where to get brushes for a Dullcier alternator?

    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    Drop it in to a half-competent auto sparky and let them sort it out Possibly cheaper than chasing after the bits yourself.

    I'm intrigued by the anti-pollution gear comment, btw. What is it? My car has, ummmm... a breather pipe.

    Chris
    GS 1220 break. Beige cars go faster

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Yeh, it's pretty wierd. There is a tube to the base of the carbie connected to a vacuum capsule that looks like it opens a value to let air into the manifold heating circuit- Looks like air would flow into into the exhaust when the inlet manifold pressure drops.

    The manifold heating has been blanked off, so it's a bit hard to work out exactly what it does... I'll take a photo tonight.

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    Hmmm, is this the 1300 engine?

    I think some late C-matics had a temperature-sensitive fast idle switch that plugged into the electrovalve and worked via a vacuum line.

    Come to think of it, my car has a blanking plate on the intake manifold, under the carb, that may be the same thing... I always assumed it was a disconnected fast idle or some such. It isn't in the manual, anyway. The dreaded ADRs strike again?

    Do yourself a favour and reconnect the manifold heating when you get a chance... 'specially in Hobart!

    Chris
    GS 1220 break. Beige cars go faster

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    It's a manual 1220, 1977 I think.

    Unfortunately the manifold heating connections on the exhaust system have been welded up. I've actual got three Tassie GS's, all of which have been vandalised in this manner... The work of some local specialist no doubt

    I've collected enough bits to fix it, but as you can image, I'm procrastinating on breaking the seals in the exhaust system

    You might remember the problems I had with fuel consumption with this car. Over summer the economy has significantly improved.... I suspect the primary cause of the problem is indeed the manifold heating, or lack there of....

    With regard to the antipolution stuff, my suspicion is that it is actually an exhaust dilution device. I've heard these where used in early conformadoors to water down exhaust emmissions to meet the ADR!

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj
    I'm procrastinating on breaking the seals in the exhaust system
    Wait long enough and it will probably break a seal for you!

    I really would like a word with whoever designed that system

    Chris
    GS 1220 break. Beige cars go faster

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj
    Now to re-build the old one.... Anyone know where to get brushes for a Dullcier alternator?

    Andrew
    Andrew,

    I had to re-brush a Ducellier a couple of years ago (which is still going strong). At the time I simply removed what was left of the worn brushes and took them into a helpful auto electrician to match them up. I didn't get a perfect match, however the brush material is quite soft, so it was very easy to carefully file the (slightly oversize) new ones down to the right dimensions to suit. On most of the Ducelliers, a soldering iron will be needed to remove the old brushes and also to reconnect the wires on the new brushes to their terminal posts. The tensioner spring for each brush coils around the wire and gets in the way as you reconnect it. From memory a small pair of vice grips gently clamped on the wire, to relieve the spring tension, alleviates the need for three hands as you solder it back on. Unlike a SEV Marchal GS alternator, brushes on a Ducellier (or a Paris Rhone, for that matter) are quite accessible and don't require complete alternator disassembly to access them...
    Cheers,
    Last edited by Brett R; 7th February 2006 at 08:30 PM.

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