Questions for Shane....
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Icon7 Questions for Shane....

    Hi Shane,

    Was browsing around today and came across your article on doing the Xantia cambelt at

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane/xan...as_cambelt.htm

    And since I have to do the cambelt on mine (or get someone else to do it) I found the pictures very helpful as we all know that the Haynes BOL is full of..... well..... lies....

    Some questions though:

    Can you remember what size the camshaft pulley nut was ? I don't remember if the Haynes book has it, but if it does its bound to be incorrect.

    As we don't have a rattle gun and its an automatic I presume that means removing the cover off the bottom of the flywheel to lock the engine there ? (Or were you doing it from the top where the screwdriver is pictured ?)

    Did you replace the cambelt tensioner ? (The belt I have came with a tensioner)

    How did you set the tension ? Did you just use the rule of thumb twist the belt 90 degrees on the long side trick or something else ?

    You show that the camshaft pulley guide hole didnt line up, but what about the crankshaft one ? It seems pretty incredible that the timing holes wouldn't line up.

    Regarding your comments on the auxillary belt tensioner - it is correct to remove it to get the belt out...when you turn it with a socket drive you can then stick a drillbit or similar into the locking hole, then you just unbolt the tensioner and remove it. Easy peasy

    And that hose that you pulled off, I believe thats the MAP sensor

    Regards,
    Simon

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    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Oh gee's,

    it's about 2years since I changed that belt. I'll check the socket size for you as I can't remember.

    The cranshaft bolt. You will need to lock the flywheel with a screwdriver through the bellhousing next to the startermotor (there is a picture there... It's where you roll the motor over from too).

    The serpentine/auxilary/fan belt tensioner is just a bloody great spring. I doubt you need to remove it. Just back it off with a 3/8ths ratchet (the spring is quite strong so give it some muscle).

    I'd mark the belt like I did before removal, it's not unusual for the harmonic balancer to rotate on it's rubber bush. I didn't replace the tensioner or the waterpump as there bearings felt good. If your paying someone to do the work it's probably worthwhile (if the get noisy or die, it's just more of my own time to fix them).

    I found the camshaft pulley not lining up is simply unheard of on every list world wide, so I wouldn't give that a thought.

    Alan has recently done this job, possibly he can remember the crank socket bolt size ???

    good luck, but I think you'll find it a peice of cake

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    From memory, 22mm
    Shit easy job to do.
    I replaced my serpentine belt and figuring which way that went was the biggest challenge.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Oh gee's,

    it's about 2years since I changed that belt. I'll check the socket size for you as I can't remember.
    Oh..... I thought the article on your site was new ? I've been to your site a few times before and hadn't seen it until now so assumed you'd just done it...
    The cranshaft bolt. You will need to lock the flywheel with a screwdriver through the bellhousing next to the startermotor (there is a picture there... It's where you roll the motor over from too).
    Ok well if one person can lock the crankshaft like that with a giant screwdriver while another person undoes the nut I should be right as I plan to have a couple of helpers on hand
    The serpentine/auxilary/fan belt tensioner is just a bloody great spring. I doubt you need to remove it. Just back it off with a 3/8ths ratchet (the spring is quite strong so give it some muscle).
    Forgot to mention that I've had the aux belt off and put back on Dad's car when he got some chassis straightening done on the right wing, so I have no trouble with the aux belt. (Apart from it being a scraped knuckles job due to hardly any gap to work in....especially when the chassis was initially bent inwards slightly)

    In that case we found it a lot easier to insert a locking pin and remove the whole tensioner. As it turned out it was just as well we did as we discovered that someone previous had stripped one of the tensioner mounting bolt holes so we ended up having to drill and tap the hole out to the next size bolt.
    I'd mark the belt like I did before removal, it's not unusual for the harmonic balancer to rotate on it's rubber bush.
    Yeah, I like your belt marking method I had been wondering what to do if we discovered that the locking pegs wouldn't line up, so that answers that question...
    I didn't replace the tensioner or the waterpump as there bearings felt good. If your paying someone to do the work it's probably worthwhile (if the get noisy or die, it's just more of my own time to fix them).
    Well the belt kit I bought comes with a new tensioner pulley/bearing so no reason not to fit it now.... There is a dry sounding idler/tensioner bearing somewhere on the engine but until I try running it with the aux belt off I wont know which one it is exactly..
    I found the camshaft pulley not lining up is simply unheard of on every list world wide, so I wouldn't give that a thought.
    I always like to hope for the best but plan for the worst....
    Alan has recently done this job, possibly he can remember the crank socket bolt size ???

    good luck, but I think you'll find it a peice of cake
    Initially I was planning to do the belt, but it has been put off for about a month now, then I started to think it would be too difficult (plus not a lot of spare time at the moment for cars) but after reading your article it's convinced me that its probably not so bad after all.

    My main concerns were getting the crank pulley nut off, and the limited access for working on the belt, but it now actually looks like there is more chassis clearance for working on the timing belt than there is on the aux belt, is this right ?

    Oh, you didn't mention how you tensioned the belt ?

    Regards,
    Simon
    Last edited by Mandrake; 19th January 2006 at 07:19 PM.
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I have an engine crane and I find the easiest way ever to do a cambelt is to swing the engine off the crane, remove bolts to the engine mounts and drop and raise it as is required.
    I usually Tippex the teeth on the old belt and mark a corresponding tooth on the cog and if you do that and be very exacting in what you do, it really doesn't matter about holding sprockets and things; just be sure to whip the plugs out before you start.
    I set mine at TDC just so I had a double check on things.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    From memory, 22mm
    Oh is that all ? Should be fine then. Would a good quality 1/2" drive socket with a bar be good enough to undo it or does it need something special ? I think Dad has a set of 3/4" inch drive sockets as well.
    Shit easy job to do.
    I replaced my serpentine belt and figuring which way that went was the biggest challenge.

    Alan S
    Serpentine belt ? Is that aussie slang ?

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  7. #7
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I have an engine crane and I find the easiest way ever to do a cambelt is to swing the engine off the crane, remove bolts to the engine mounts and drop and raise it as is required.
    I usually Tippex the teeth on the old belt and mark a corresponding tooth on the cog and if you do that and be very exacting in what you do, it really doesn't matter about holding sprockets and things; just be sure to whip the plugs out before you start.
    I set mine at TDC just so I had a double check on things.
    The tensioner is a spring loaded "auto" affair buyt I had to reset mine using the 45 deg twist using the thumb and forefinger method; came out perfect.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  8. #8
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandrake
    Oh is that all ? Should be fine then. Would a good quality 1/2" drive socket with a bar be good enough to undo it or does it need something special ? I think Dad has a set of 3/4" inch drive sockets as well.

    Serpentine belt ? Is that aussie slang ?

    Regards,
    Simon
    Serpentine is a multi groove belt - not aussie slang

    Shit easy
    That's aussie slang.
    1/2" drive is stacks big enough.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Serpentine is a multi groove belt - not aussie slang
    Ok. Hadn't heard it called that before.

    Yes I agree about figuring out how to thread the damn thing. Naturally the Haynes book of lies doesn't have the belt layout for the 2 litre 8 valve petrol.... I think I tried about 10 different ways of threading it before hitting on the right one. (Unfortunately I wasn't present when it was removed and even if I was I probably wouldn't have drawn a diagram, but I've learnt that lesson now!)

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  10. #10
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Serpentine is a multi groove belt

    Alan S
    I would have said that a serpentine belt was one that slithered like a serpent in every direction. In other words one that went round a heap of pulleys turning this way and that. One long belt doing what used to be the job of several short ones. It just happens that such belts tend to be multi grooved. But I think the heap of pulleys is more critical to the term serpentine than the heap of grooves.

    Roger

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Roger,

    I'll show you where that belt runs next time your around .... I couldn't figure out how the bloody hell to get it back on .... The Haynes book of fairy tales was useless.... I finally found the 2litre layout for the cambelt in the XM manual ... The route it takes defies belief .... Talk about a torturous route I'm stunned it lasts any time at all.

    Oh yeah, Mandrake, before you remove the belt DRAW YOURSELF A DIAGRAM OF IT !!!!!!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Oh yeah, Mandrake, before you remove the belt [B
    DRAW YOURSELF A DIAGRAM OF IT !!!!!![/B]

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    FWIW, I did that AND took a pic and still got lost. It usually ends up being ever so obvious...................once you get it on!!


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I've always termed that serpentine belt, as an Ancilliary belt.
    Interesting thing regional language.....john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Hi Roger,

    I'll show you where that belt runs next time your around .... I couldn't figure out how the bloody hell to get it back on .... The Haynes book of fairy tales was useless.... I finally found the 2litre layout for the cambelt in the XM manual ... The route it takes defies belief .... Talk about a torturous route I'm stunned it lasts any time at all.
    Yes it is a rather *cough* "interesting" route that it follows...
    Oh yeah, Mandrake, before you remove the belt DRAW YOURSELF A DIAGRAM OF IT !!!!!!
    You bet !!

    Actually when we put the belt back on Dad's car I did end up drawing a diagram of it - I drew about 8 different diagrams of the pulleys and on each one I drew a different possible threading of the belt taking into account keeping the teeth towards the pulleys and the flat towards the idlers, and tried them all until I found the one where the belt length was correct.

    I kept the drawing of the correct layout...

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    The tensioner is a spring loaded "auto" affair buyt I had to reset mine using the 45 deg twist using the thumb and forefinger method; came out perfect.
    Hi Alan,

    Looking at the new belt tensioner that came with my belt, it has a round offset hole (for the bolt presumably) and a square hole 8mm square on one side which I guess is to insert a square drive for applying the tension ?

    If so, where does the spring come into it ? Is there one that stays on the engine when you replace the tensioner, or have I been supplied the wrong one?

    Regards,
    Simon
    1998 Xantia Mk2 V6 Auto Exclusive

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