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Thread: CitroŽn GS Birotor Wankel

  1. #76
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Bruce,

    Yes Birotor will have to wait- want to hone my skills on a couple of other vehicles before I tackle it. Next project is to get the orange wagon on the road - rebuilt motor, repainted, just need to sort out interior.... Will be at Citin in Dyane.

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    Hopefully there will be a good turn out of GSesss!

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '71? Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  2. #77
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    A flat chat GS is quite phenomenal.
    Can you fathom a 1200cc VW at 100MPH (not kPH)?

    Our GS1015 3 speed convertisseur traversed the Hay Plains at about 100MPH.
    You flatten the pedal to the floor, redline the tacho, and max out the speedo, and sit there for as long as you can.
    Yeah, baby.
    This is the only blue G I remember seeing at the Gayndah Cit-In, so no doubt the one to which geedee was referring. Citroën GS Birotor Wankel-img_20170315_0001.jpg
    Mine wasn't there, as I took the black AX Gti I had at the time.
    Last edited by Bruce H; 15th March 2017 at 10:16 PM.
    Bruce H

    Now 10 DS3 Dstyle; 99 Xantia SX; 96 Xantia SX; 78 GS Pallas; 77 GS Pallas; 76 GS Club Estate; 76 GS Club Estate; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  3. #78
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Hopefully there will be a good turn out of GSesss!
    Mine won't be there. I'll be flying in and hopefully arriving in the Xantia again, if I can get the hydraulics fixed in time.

    Would be nice to see some of the southern GSesss though.
    Bruce H

    Now 10 DS3 Dstyle; 99 Xantia SX; 96 Xantia SX; 78 GS Pallas; 77 GS Pallas; 76 GS Club Estate; 76 GS Club Estate; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  4. #79
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    At Gayndah cit-in it was owned by Jason Hantos;a lot of hog-wash about having nothing down low as he won the trophy for the quickest small car;i won the quickest large in a ds21 efi.hyd. and another son was the fastest on the day but got nothing as shock horror he was in a renault fuego;ah memories,Andy.

  5. #80
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    At Gayndah cit-in it was owned by Jason Hantos;a lot of hog-wash about having nothing down low as he won the trophy for the quickest small car;i won the quickest large in a ds21 efi.hyd. and another son was the fastest on the day but got nothing as shock horror he was in a renault fuego;ah memories,Andy.
    That's crazy I've driven lots of C-matics and quite a few hydraulic cars.

    no way a DS21 hydraulic (or any hydraulic car) is faster off the line ... where you can't slip the clutch ... I'd have expected any standard GS ( where you can pop the clutch at 7000rpm) to win .... and any CX turbo, BX 16valve ... XM 24 valve manual ... or SM to win the large car. You simply can't compare a C-matic or hydraulic performance off the line compared to a powerful car with a manual gearbox (especially if the driver doen't care about the clutch).

    I think you confusing very good drivers with faster cars. It's remarkable how often the cars that are driven the slowest are considerably faster around a tight track. A good driver in a DS would beat me around a motorkhana course on grass probably everytime. The CX would act like a parallel trenching machine spinning the wheels madly everywhere while you tried to keep the motor off the rev limiter ... and arrive at every corner so fast you can't get around them (which is where you lose all your time).

    Don't knock the renault fuego around a small tight track. Fitted with a good set of tires, those thing are amazing ... especially when you use the handbrake to "help" the back end around corners.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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  6. #81
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    Sorry Shane but the trophies are sitting here;in a hyd;as you enter a "garage" you lock up the brakes and can select reverse and are on the way out as you stop,very quick.

  7. #82
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    Sorry Shane but the trophies are sitting here;in a hyd;as you enter a "garage" you lock up the brakes and can select reverse and are on the way out as you stop,very quick.
    I think you missed the bit where I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying it's drivers that win on those really tight tracks with no traction. Well driven 2cvs (and sometimes even tractions) can do really will if the drivers good ... if the cones aren't too tight..... ( 'cos the steering lock sucks in tractions).

    You sure do have a point about going from 1st to reverse. I'll often have 3 goes at finding reverse in my cars (be it CX/GS/DS/XM/etc) goes rather than forcing the gearbox (ie: clutch out ... count to 5 ... or touch first gear synchro then try reverse again). People that have no mechanical sympathy will do much better than me with a manual gearbox

    I've always wondered how the BVH goes with hydraulics forcing it into reverse (given it often doesn't want to pop in when you select it with a manual gearbox). After all the hydraulics will just slam it in with great force. Strangely it doesn't seem to ever hurt or break them though

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #83
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    True Shane;still have the 21;once wheels not turning reverse is straight in. As for those putting revs on and dropping clutch;they just waste time spinning wheels while the clock runs,Andy.

  9. #84
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    Well I remember in my youth going to watch Rallycross meetings @Lydden Hill (UK), all sorts of weird & wonderful cars (sadly no Cits. as far as I can remember). About twice a year there was an 'International' meeting with cars such as the 'Kremer' Porsche making over 500bhp.
    Not always did they win though as sometimes the gargantuan power was too much of an embarrassment on the loose surfaced section of track & one of the local upstart Minis or Ford Escorts would sneak past on the inside. So power isn't always everything, FWD or not :-)


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  10. #85
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Andy,

    I find you description of my reply about the Birotor performance as hogwash very offensive, especially considering you don't own the car, and have never owned the car.

    I built and drove it, so I think I should know how it went. A gymkhana against other small engined Citroens isn't the same as real world driving, and quite frankly putting such a rare vehicle in a gymkhana shows a complete lack of respect for it?.

    For the equivalent of 2 litres engine IT WAS slow to accelerate, there was no low down torque, the reason Citroen fitted the car with a semiautomatic gearbox. But after 3,000 RPM the seat back would hit you as it took off.

    The Birotor was undoubtably Citroen's biggest flop. Part of the reason they went bankrupt. To only sell 847 cars in two years of production was a monumental failure. Those sales alone says there were some big underlying problems.

    For me, I'm getting pretty sick of this posting about the Birotor and some Froggers wanting to make statement about something they really know nothing about.

    Building our RHD Birotor was an enormous achievement, which I'm justifiably proud. I loved the car, warts and all, but the failure of the rotary engine across multiple manufacturers shows that there were aspects of the design that were clearly lacking.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    sparkey, citroenut and Greg C like this.
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  11. #86
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Greg even a standard 1220 GS does not have very much torque at low rpms. It has to be stirred along to get the best out of it! I can only imagine that the lack of torque would be complicated by a rotary power plant. Anyway good on you for having the guts to replicate a GZ. You have my admiration.
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    Cheers Gerry

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H View Post
    Mine won't be there. I'll be flying in and hopefully arriving in the Xantia again, if I can get the hydraulics fixed in time............Would be nice to see some of the southern GSesss though.
    BruceH - I don't think the engine will be ready in time for the brown GS. Reverse has gone in the white GS so need to replace gearbox. In worst case scenario will take Xantia to Tassie Citin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Citroën GS Birotor Wankel-img_0433.jpg   Citroën GS Birotor Wankel-img_2587%5B1%5D.jpg   Citroën GS Birotor Wankel-img_0926.jpg   Citroën GS Birotor Wankel-img_1979.jpg  
    Last edited by sparkey; 16th March 2017 at 09:23 PM.
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  13. #88
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    When I had my 23Safari , I was very competitive with the local lads in their hot Datsuns at motrokhanas here in Coffs Harbour years ago. Half of them couldn't keep their right foot off the loud peddle & many others had no idea of cornering lines. So, despite the wheelbase of a battle ship, technique & the Safari's good traction, made me more than competitive, much to the amusement & frustration of the also-rans as they whached this bathtub lurch like a jelly on a plate around the course. So much fun !!!

    Richard
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenut View Post
    When I had my 23Safari , I was very competitive with the local lads in their hot Datsuns at motrokhanas here in Coffs Harbour years ago. Half of them couldn't keep their right foot off the loud peddle & many others had no idea of cornering lines. So, despite the wheelbase of a battle ship, technique & the Safari's good traction, made me more than competitive, much to the amusement & frustration of the also-rans as they whached this bathtub lurch like a jelly on a plate around the course. So much fun !!!

    Richard
    Exactly what i meant;cars are to be enjoyed,Andy.

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