And I thought that the CX had rust
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Default And I thought that the CX had rust

    Exploration of the new D special has confirmed what everybody has been saying they do rust a bit ! but at least you can pull them apart

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hmm,

    without seeing the car in person, for a late model DS I'd actually clasify that one as a 'good' one... Or at least one of the better cars around.

    The floors look like a good wire brush and paint would be enough.

    The double/triple skinned lip the rear guards hang from isn't rusty. Where the foam boot seal sits is rusty, but far better than most. If you look at some of the "expensively restored" DS's, you'll find the boot closure looks terrible as the car was extensively 'repaired' and the poor workmanship of the repair hidden by triming the edge with some velour or body trimming

    I'd take that car over one particular $15,000 DS I saw recently. It's boot opening was well hidden but you could feel it was bloody shocking underneath the trimming.

    The boot floor in that car looks like it only needs a wire brush. Bumper mounts are usually rusty like that.

    all in all, that cars probably not a bad restorer, but please, please, please throw the bloody boots foam seal away if you repair it. This is the reason most of that rust exists

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Default

    Hey Shane, what seal works best from your experiance?

    Dan

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Default Thanks shane

    Yes I'm not that shocked just blows my mind how over the last thirty years the previous owners have'nt noticed the slightly musty smell and the fact that it was most probably raining more in the car than out .

    There's a little man in WA that does a snappy redesign for the boot lid area that results in curved higher corners and a pinchweld rubber to boot lid seal I think I will give it to him to do once I've stripped the car down and all the nasties have been exposed .

    The logic of the body construction just amazes me . I wonder whether they shot all the DS designers and burnt their schematics before they started on the CX body engineering with a bank sheet of paper
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    My experiance totals up to be " bugger all "

    Seriously though the best I've seen is Bob Kings car. The early cars have what is refered to as the "french boot rubbers". They are just strips of rubber clamped to the boot surround that the boot lid closes agaisnt. They do leak dust and exhaust fumes but do NOT rust the metal away.

    Bob King has binned his foam seal (that attaches to the boot lid and holds water indefinatly rapidly destroying any remaining metal) and has installed standard door seal rubbers to the boot surround that the boot closes against.

    Just look in the door opening of your car and you will get the idea of the sort of rubber I mean. This way there is no water held there, and the seal should be quite air tight. The biggest problem is a lot of boots have severly rusted from the old foam seal so will need new metal stiched/welded in to attach the new seal too.

    BTW: All those door seals are available by the metre from your local clark rubber store.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Hmm,

    all in all, that cars probably not a bad restorer, but please, please, please throw the bloody boots foam seal away if you repair it. This is the reason most of that rust exists

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    The previous owner of my D removed the foam seal from the bootlid for that exact reason. Whilst I sympathise with his motivation for doing so I have had to temporarily refit the seal, as after an extended trip in the car at around 100kph I realised I was slowly being gassed by exhaust fumes. Initially I diagnosed an exhaust leak and subsequently ensured the exhaust system was leak free, however that failed to eliminate this rather nasty problem. Then the penny dropped. Examination of the trailing edge of the boot lid revealed daylight into the boot cavity. Exhaust gas was being sucked under the lid and thence travelled into the cabin. As soon as I refitted the foam seal, problem solved.

    Having said this, as a first time D owner I would appreciate any suggestions for an alternative to the unsatisfactory original seal that will prevent my car from rusting in this acknowledged problem area, whilst preventing carbon monoxide poisoning. I'm planning a trip to my local Clark rubber outlet or equivalent. Has anyone else been there and done that, and if so, how did you tackle it?

    Cheers,

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! PSvensson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett R
    The previous owner of my D removed the foam seal from the bootlid for that exact reason. Whilst I sympathise with his motivation for doing so I have had to temporarily refit the seal, as after an extended trip in the car at around 100kph I realised I was slowly being gassed by exhaust fumes. Initially I diagnosed an exhaust leak and subsequently ensured the exhaust system was leak free, however that failed to eliminate this rather nasty problem. Then the penny dropped. Examination of the trailing edge of the boot lid revealed daylight into the boot cavity. Exhaust gas was being sucked under the lid and thence travelled into the cabin. As soon as I refitted the foam seal, problem solved.

    Having said this, as a first time D owner I would appreciate any suggestions for an alternative to the unsatisfactory original seal that will prevent my car from rusting in this acknowledged problem area, whilst preventing carbon monoxide poisoning. I'm planning a trip to my local Clark rubber outlet or equivalent. Has anyone else been there and done that, and if so, how did you tackle it?

    Cheers,


    Exactemondu le mec!

    priceing!, where to get! ,what company has what! and what looks neat instead of some manky looking finish?

    Dan

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett R
    The previous owner of my D removed the foam seal from the bootlid for that exact reason. Whilst I sympathise with his motivation for doing so I have had to temporarily refit the seal, as after an extended trip in the car at around 100kph I realised I was slowly being gassed by exhaust fumes. Initially I diagnosed an exhaust leak and subsequently ensured the exhaust system was leak free, however that failed to eliminate this rather nasty problem. Then the penny dropped. Examination of the trailing edge of the boot lid revealed daylight into the boot cavity. Exhaust gas was being sucked under the lid and thence travelled into the cabin. As soon as I refitted the foam seal, problem solved.

    Having said this, as a first time D owner I would appreciate any suggestions for an alternative to the unsatisfactory original seal that will prevent my car from rusting in this acknowledged problem area, whilst preventing carbon monoxide poisoning. I'm planning a trip to my local Clark rubber outlet or equivalent. Has anyone else been there and done that, and if so, how did you tackle it?

    Cheers,
    I now have the same problem you have, I removed the foam seal on my car when I first purchased - 5 years ago. It had had extensive rust repairs, (very nicely done) and remains almost perfect (same can't be said for the boot lid which is starting to blister and break out at the lower lip).

    My thoughts now are to fully seal the foam, so that it can no longer hold water (condensation) and refit (after fixing the boot lid). Not quite sure what I will use but maybe a trip to Clark Rubber will yield something??

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Default AS i HAVE BEEN INFORMED

    I think the solution is to rebiuld the boot edge lip to suit the shape of the boot lid there by creating a higher lip to disperse water around the edges and then simple pinch weld would do the trick .Why did'nt Mr smarty pants Citroen think of this when he was coming up with all the other good ideas
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails And I thought that the  CX had rust-dcp02237-small.jpg   And I thought that the  CX had rust-dcp02238-small.jpg   And I thought that the  CX had rust-dcp02241small.jpg  
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    You could always seal it shut with silicone; problem solved.
    I know someone who bought a BX that the previous owner had done that to the sunroof.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHRIVAL
    Exploration of the new D special has confirmed what everybody has been saying they do rust a bit ! but at least you can pull them apart

    Thats really no biggy exploration can be far worse than that,eg like a a massive 120km/h front ender that has been boched up!

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood
    I now have the same problem you have, I removed the foam seal on my car when I first purchased - 5 years ago. It had had extensive rust repairs, (very nicely done) and remains almost perfect (same can't be said for the boot lid which is starting to blister and break out at the lower lip).

    My thoughts now are to fully seal the foam, so that it can no longer hold water (condensation) and refit (after fixing the boot lid). Not quite sure what I will use but maybe a trip to Clark Rubber will yield something??

    Cheers
    Chris

    Yeah now thats a good idea! as it will still keep its originality
    suppose trial an error would be if it still leaked

    Dan

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hmm,

    that rust around the jacking point is a worry. That's the box member you step to get into the car is a major structural member of the car. The floor and boot rust is to be expected however can you see the reason for that box section rusting ?? Whats the sill like just behind the front wheels where some cars have a box section visible.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  14. #14
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    Default DS rust

    Sorry to rain on your parade, but have a good poke around the doors where the triangular seal at the bottom is crimped on..lots of unprotected metal exposed to water in that vicinity...

    Equally significant to that hole around the jacking point is the "hooP" structure that the rear screen is mounted against, They tend to rust out at the base just behind the bootlid hinge area, at the very corner of the rear screen...
    also have a good look at the hull structure at the top of the front screen near where the self tapping screw in the centre holds the stainless trim on..frequently that has degraded because of sitting water

    DS were never well rustproofed and the "extra strength from hollow members" philosophy espoused in the advertising really means... "lots of hollow structures that were never painted on the inside".....

    The chassis structure of 2 CVs were also poorly considered in terms of water traps and were equally unprotected

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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund
    Sorry to rain on your parade, but.....
    Rain away fritzy, you're the one driving a Camry or some such

    Just think with half the money you paid for your current car you could have a fully restored D completly rust free and mechanically sound...

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Icon12 Its a Disease

    SO MUCH FUN FOR SO LITTLE MONEY .All these guys with their new cars loosing 20% per anum on the purchase price at the moment and no skinned knuckles or grease under their finger nails.
    Recounting at the pub what their previous cars would be worth now if they had kept them.
    Every now and then I try to pretend that having and tinkering with old cars is sensible
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  17. #17
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    Default Sealed foam.

    Clark rubber should have a foam seal made from closed cell foam. There are no open spaces in the foam, the sponge is made up of millions of tiny spheres of synthetic rubber. That way it can't absorb any moisture. This may be the answer to getting an original look without the original rust.
    Dom
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  18. #18
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    Remember too we are talking about cars that are all now over 30 years old, and would not have been designed to last this long. As Fritz points out, Citroens were not rustproofed much if at all back then, and even CXs that were still rusted eventually.

    It is only in the past 15 or 20 years we have seen manufacturers confident enough to give long term rust free warrantees. Look at BXs, most of them are still rust free (in Aus - not counting those salt laden euro driven ones...)


    Have fun with this one - when you have done it I'll send one of mine over for some minor attention
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  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund
    Sorry to rain on your parade, but have a good poke around the doors where the triangular seal at the bottom is crimped on..lots of unprotected metal exposed to water in that vicinity...

    Equally significant to that hole around the jacking point is the "hooP" structure that the rear screen is mounted against, They tend to rust out at the base just behind the bootlid hinge area, at the very corner of the rear screen...
    also have a good look at the hull structure at the top of the front screen near where the self tapping screw in the centre holds the stainless trim on..frequently that has degraded because of sitting water

    DS were never well rustproofed and the "extra strength from hollow members" philosophy espoused in the advertising really means... "lots of hollow structures that were never painted on the inside".....

    The chassis structure of 2 CVs were also poorly considered in terms of water traps and were equally unprotected
    Hi Fritzy,

    you have some really good helpful knowledge on these cars ... It would be good if you could do a buyers guide type document.

    Show me any car made 30years ago that doesn't have issues of some sort. Sure they rust, but if someone with obviously decades of experiance like you could find a rusty car to take same piccies of with pointers, that would be really helpful.

    I'd also be thinking:

    --Petrol tank floor,
    --running your hand around the roof frame
    --'C' pillars where the inside roof guttering can leak down rotting the hidden 'C' pillar away
    --rear arm mounts under the anti-roll bar
    --bumper mounts
    --*base* of the boot closing box member on cars without the foam seal (you can see the car above is rusting here by the bubbles). ie: try to push your fingers through the bottom of the box member
    --make sure the floors are still attached and not rotted away from the main box members you step over to get into the car

    I'm sure you could add a LOT of points to above. How about trying to help us rather than being cynicle It takes decades of working on these cars to accumulate the knowledge you appear to have. Anyone that can be so crytical of every failing these cars has, most certainly has discovered/repaired those some failings in the past so has much advice to offer

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  20. #20
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    ...ooops didn't mean to be so hard on fritzy, but I agree Shane, our fritz is like a reformed smoker (maybe a poor analogy) but how about highlighting the positive aspects of owning an aging Citroen and helping without the criptic undertones.

    Couple of sites that are along the lines of your suggestion Shane

    DS http://www.citroen-ca.com/DSguide.html

    CX http://www.citroen-ca.com/CXguide.html

    2CV http://www.citroen-ca.com/2CVguide.html

    This is also an excellent site covering a DS restoration
    http://www.citroen-restoration.co.uk/ds/index.php

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    You could always seal it shut with silicone; problem solved.
    I know someone who bought a BX that the previous owner had done that to the sunroof.
    Don't laugh, I did that to my old GS. I got sick of bailing water out of the footwell, having it run down my neck, and of blowing bits of rust out of the sunroof frame... should be called a "leak roof", and even when they work right they let the bloody sun in

    Hey, new smilies!

    Chris
    GS 1220 break. Beige cars go faster

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Default DS Boot rusting

    Hi Froggies....
    When I had a DS , I found the water leaked into the boot because the rubber seal on the metal arm that holds the Bumper bar on, had failed.
    I removed all the rust with a wire brush on a drill, vacuumed it all away, painted everything with tar paint to seal it, and then fixed the problem.
    I found that once the water could no longer run in along the rear bumper bar support, there was no more water ever getting into the boot to rust the boot floor.

    Also regarding the exhaust fumes....be really careful when driving that you keep well back from the car in front...especially at the traffic lights...because the air intakes for the DS cabin is right at the front...and at the exact height to just suck in all the pure exhaust from the car in front of you.
    It's almost like a Nazi gas chamber design. If you have either fan on, you will pump exhaust from the car in front, straight into your face.

    The only solution is to keep well back from the car in front of you.

    Cheers....George 1/8th.

    Almost registered CX 2400 C-matic.

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