XM's really do handle
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! sdabel's Avatar
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    Icon10 XM's really do handle

    Yesterday a sports Magna of some description decided to show me a lesson through a corner. Sitting behind him I could see the magna twitching all over the road. The XM was not even close to its limits, just smooth and relaxed as always.

    Easy to forget how well they handle because most of the time you don't notice it.

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    sean
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdabel
    Yesterday a sports Magna of some description decided to show me a lesson through a corner. Sitting behind him I could see the magna twitching all over the road. The XM was not even close to its limits, just smooth and relaxed as always.

    Easy to forget how well they handle because most of the time you don't notice it.

    regards
    sean
    XM's are rad

  3. #3
    UFO
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    I frequently have fun to and from Sydney through the "dippers" between Wollongong and the start of the northern section of the F6. Long hills with sweeping bends with poor or reversed super elevation at the tops of the hills. Wayne Kerrs like to think there VN/VP commodes can stay ahead but they struggle to maintain 90 (100 zone). When they yield I just cruise past effortlessly.

    Another fun bit is past the "angry dolphins" between Kirrawee and Loftus.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    I frequently have fun to and from Sydney through the "dippers" between Wollongong and the start of the northern section of the F6. Long hills with sweeping bends with poor or reversed super elevation at the tops of the hills. Wayne Kerrs like to think there VN/VP commodes can stay ahead but they struggle to maintain 90 (100 zone). When they yield I just cruise past effortlessly.

    Another fun bit is past the "angry dolphins" between Kirrawee and Loftus.
    Aussie cars are crap. They are very embarrassing. To think a Calais is the same price as a V6 C5 is just bollox.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! blomquvist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdabel
    Easy to forget how well they handle because most of the time you don't notice it.

    Agree. The XM carves through corners with suprising ease and comfort for the big front-wheel drive bus it is. Have pushed it through hairpins and roundabouts that my 205 GTI enjoys, and it's not a lot slower. Great on winding country roads. Feels considerably more secure in tight bends than the lowered, beefed up sports suspension fitted to our V70R, and way ahead of Commodore / Falcon.
    1992 Citroen XM 2.0i Prestige 1989 Peugeot 205 GTI S2 (Little Red Car for sale) 1998 Volvo V70R AWD (Big Red Car)

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You guys are crazy buggers.

    I was scratching around under the bonnet of an XM on Sunday night ... Pop the bonnet ...... er, um ..... Where the bloody hell are the spheres

    Alan you reckon the BX16valve is bad ... You gotta look under the bonnet of a V6 XM. The rear head is against the firewall, the front head is againt the grill... The spheres can be seen from underneath. Getting the main accumulator off is ... er... 'FUN' (bloody Citroen). The front hydractive is hidden but at least accessable. The rear hydractive is hidden behind a sh!t of a shield you must remove. (any bloody wonder they all seem to have flat H/A spheres). Not having ramps simply isn't an option. You MUST have them. Without a set of full length ramps we'd probably still be in the shed screaming abuse at it now.

    The highly serviced XM we had here:

    --Front duel diaphram spheres ... Obviously the spheres it left the factory with, they were still exactly at the pressure they left the factory with (brilliant or what for a car with a 90's build date).
    --Front hydractive ... Dead and full of fluid
    --Read hydractive ... Dead and full of fluid
    --Rear left ... 7bar pressure (should be 45 from memory)
    --Rear right ... 8 bar pressure.

    No wonder the owner wasn't impressed with it's ride.

    It rides really well with a set of gassed accumulators where the dead hydractive spheres were, and a set of gassed rear CX spheres under it.

    The CX spheres seem to work well enough to get by with until the correct spheres can be ordered in/regassed. Same goes for using accumulators for the H/A spheres. After all H/A spheres are just 400 or 500cc accumulators with slightly different pressures in them.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! blomquvist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    You guys are crazy buggers.

    I was scratching around under the bonnet of an XM on Sunday night ... Pop the bonnet ...... er, um ..... Where the bloody hell are the spheres
    .
    Don't let unfamiliarity breed contempt, Shane

    You must have been working on a 3.0 V6 - big, heavy and a lot of metal to produce around 120kw. Whereas the lithe 95 kw 2.0i has space, grace (kind of) and, well, a bit of pace (more than a walking pace). There's room to stand between the radiator and the engine block, if you felt the need.
    1992 Citroen XM 2.0i Prestige 1989 Peugeot 205 GTI S2 (Little Red Car for sale) 1998 Volvo V70R AWD (Big Red Car)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide Perinet
    Aussie cars are crap. They are very embarrassing. To think a Calais is the same price as a V6 C5 is just bollox.
    What's your experience with recent Australian cars?

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  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    What's your experience with recent Australian cars?
    More to the point "Who Cares"

    If we want to talk about the local cars that (well the 'local' cars that are mostly made overseas or fully imported everyone still seems to think they are a "great locally made product") we go to a Commonbore or Fowlcan bulletin board.

    We talk about Sightrones here

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blomquvist
    Don't let unfamiliarity breed contempt, Shane

    You must have been working on a 3.0 V6 - big, heavy and a lot of metal to produce around 120kw. Whereas the lithe 95 kw 2.0i has space, grace (kind of) and, well, a bit of pace (more than a walking pace). There's room to stand between the radiator and the engine block, if you felt the need.
    Yeah,

    it's a V6 slugomatic. Certainly they aren't a quick car either (no pin you back in the seat in a CX GTi Turbo way), but nice and effortless.

    I'd be keeping my eyes open for a turbo deisel 5spd if I ever get the opportunity to own an XM

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
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    Shane,

    Have you found the fuel filter yet?

    The XMs do handle well but on a recent trip down the West Coast of Tasmania there was no way that I could keep up with a Xantia Activa. Now they stick to the road.

    Peter
    92 XM
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    74 DSpecial

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    More to the point "Who Cares"

    .
    Priceless and Spot on....I doubt australia could ever make a great handling everyday car. Australian car makers are too close behind the US market I feel, GMH and Ford still make tanks, and the Toys and Mitsu's are heading that way too...getting bigger
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  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    My "recent" experience was with one of the U-beaut 'Traction control' Fowlcans that was gunned out of a corner, got the tail wags and did a 180 straight into a drain much to the embarrasment of the poseur behind the wheel. Red face may have been due to the round of applause he got from my passengers who commented, "does that say Traction control or Fraction control??" but they read well in the papers.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! blomquvist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Yeah,
    I'd be keeping my eyes open for a turbo deisel 5spd if I ever get the opportunity to own an XM
    Shameless digression, but I wonder how challenging the transplant from the 2.0i petrol to a diesel would be in the XM? Diesel engines cheap as chips in Europe (but importing costs would be another matter entirely).
    1992 Citroen XM 2.0i Prestige 1989 Peugeot 205 GTI S2 (Little Red Car for sale) 1998 Volvo V70R AWD (Big Red Car)

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    I drove several BA Falcons a year ago; the standard undertyred one is OK but rather soggily damped with mismatched and sharp steering - it wouldn't see which way a Xantia went on any corner.

    Fairmont Ghia V8 was a but better, but still felt on tippy toes.

    However, the XR6 is an excellent drive, nicely tied down but still comfortable and refined - vastly superior. Preferred this to 407 sedan which I'd driven the same route the day before.
    John

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  16. #16
    WLB
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    Quote Originally Posted by blomquvist
    Shameless digression, but I wonder how challenging the transplant from the 2.0i petrol to a diesel would be in the XM? Diesel engines cheap as chips in Europe (but importing costs would be another matter entirely).
    I'm afraid the diesel is a nightmare under the bonnet too, and it still has all the dodgy electronic do-hickies that play up or pack up and can't be accessed or fixed easily. Nice car but overly complicated in places where it needn't have been.

    Warwick.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    What's your experience with recent Australian cars?
    A 2004 Calais hire car with 5000kms. Like I said, it was embarrasing. Crap seats, crap brakes, noisy at 110km/h, a rattle in the window. I thought it might have been worth $40K. When I colleague told me they are like $60K, I was in shock - and to think how there is a Commodore for $100K is beyong me, even it it did 0-100 in 1 second.
    Euro's and/or Tokyo are the only way to go.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! sdabel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLB
    I'm afraid the diesel is a nightmare under the bonnet too, and it still has all the dodgy electronic do-hickies that play up or pack up and can't be accessed or fixed easily. Nice car but overly complicated in places where it needn't have been.

    Warwick.
    Are you thinking of the 2.5 TD? The 2.1 TD is reasonable to work on (ie cambelt can be changed with engine in situ) and if you get the right model they have mechanical fuel injection. Really nothing to go wrong or adjust except for timing belts, oil, coolant and the odd crank pulley.

    regards
    sean
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    1996 XM 2.1 TD Exclusive

  19. #19
    WLB
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdabel
    Are you thinking of the 2.5 TD? The 2.1 TD is reasonable to work on (ie cambelt can be changed with engine in situ) and if you get the right model they have mechanical fuel injection. Really nothing to go wrong or adjust except for timing belts, oil, coolant and the odd crank pulley.

    regards
    sean
    That sounds better. Yes, the only one I've had a look at is the 2.5.

  20. #20
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I was scratching around under the bonnet of an XM on Sunday night ... Pop the bonnet ...... er, um ..... Where the bloody hell are the spheres

    Alan you reckon the BX16valve is bad ... You gotta look under the bonnet of a V6 XM.

    The highly serviced XM we had here:

    --Front duel diaphram spheres ... Obviously the spheres it left the factory with, they were still exactly at the pressure they left the factory with (brilliant or what for a car with a 90's build date).
    --Front hydractive ... Dead and full of fluid
    --Read hydractive ... Dead and full of fluid
    --Rear left ... 7bar pressure (should be 45 from memory)
    --Rear right ... 8 bar pressure.

    No wonder the owner wasn't impressed with it's ride.

    It rides really well with a set of gassed accumulators where the dead hydractive spheres were, and a set of gassed rear CX spheres under it.
    That was my XM. Its a V6 auto, first owned by Harry Seidler. Yes, Shane has finally driven a slugomatic XM! It is effortless rather than speedy.

    I bought the car a few months back with $9000 in receipts in the previous 2 months, from a Citroen specialist in Sydney. When I asked the said specialist about the spheres he said he thought they were OK because the ride seemed pretty good. I thought the ride was pretty poor and now I know why. Courtesy of Shane's sphere pressure tester and his stash of old, half-gassed spheres, I now have a reasonable ride. It is just as well the Sydney specialist replaced the main accumulator, because I reckon I would still be trying to get it off two days later.

    The only problem I am having with the car is a slight but noticeable shudder through the steering wheel when cornering sharply at low speeds. More pronounced when turning right. New Michelin XM1's on the front. I have had it up on a hoist and nothing feels loose.

    Roger

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Of course the best bit about Rogers XM It's Rogers XM so it's him that gets his hands dirty I'm good at giving moral support "Gee's that's in a sh!t of a position.... Glad I don't have to remove it "... "Are you hands and arms feeling like lead yet" etc, etc.... It's good to see other people have the same issues as me...

    He has convinced me I need to get a garage creaper though. That's next on the shopping list.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! blomquvist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson
    The only problem I am having with the car is a slight but noticeable shudder through the steering wheel when cornering sharply at low speeds. More pronounced when turning right. New Michelin XM1's on the front. I have had it up on a hoist and nothing feels loose.
    Roger,

    No answers, but my XM behaves similarly at very low speeds, particularly when cold. Without any technical insight whatsoever, I wonder if it's related to the (very high pressure) power steering, rather than the tires.

    Cheers,

    Greg
    1992 Citroen XM 2.0i Prestige 1989 Peugeot 205 GTI S2 (Little Red Car for sale) 1998 Volvo V70R AWD (Big Red Car)

  23. #23
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blomquvist
    Shameless digression, but I wonder how challenging the transplant from the 2.0i petrol to a diesel would be in the XM? Diesel engines cheap as chips in Europe (but importing costs would be another matter entirely).
    If you want the complete low-down on changing a 2.0 petrol, into a 2.1 diesel, it has been done, by my best mate, docchevron1472. In fact, one crazy bugger over here, has put a 1.7 normal aspired engine in an XM. Can't immagine why, it could barely cope with a BX body, so it must be a complete sloth in a heavy tank like the XM!!! If you're interested to know more, I'll get him to describe the pitfalls. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  24. #24
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    My original post:
    The only problem I am having with the car is a slight but noticeable shudder through the steering wheel when cornering sharply at low speeds. More pronounced when turning right. New Michelin XM1's on the front. I have had it up on a hoist and nothing feels loose.

    Quote Originally Posted by blomquvist
    Roger,

    No answers, but my XM behaves similarly at very low speeds, particularly when cold. Without any technical insight whatsoever, I wonder if it's related to the (very high pressure) power steering, rather than the tires.

    Cheers,

    Greg
    I think you are right Greg. Mine has had some recent steering work by the Sydney specialists (they had to do something to earn their $9000). Steering ram pipes, bushes, seals, flow divider. As far as I can tell, these are the usual suspects when it comes to steering. Also the centre driveshaft bearing, which is apparently a shocker to get to. But it does feel like it's caused by the steering rather than the tyres or driveshafts or suspension. It is not shaking the whole car, just the steering wheel in my hands. Your remark about it being worse when cold is interesting, I notice it mostly when I am driving out my twisty driveway. I'll look out for differences between cold and hot now.

    I am not wedded to this car as I am to my DS19. All I have to do is make it last 10 or 15 years until C6s are cheap enough.

    Roger

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    Roger, do you ever think everyone on CB radio is looking for you?
    Care factor = -273.15ļC

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