what makes a citroen a...errr, citroen?
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  1. #1
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    Default what makes a citroen a...errr, citroen?

    i now own a citroen xsara, used as a daily driver (my father's, previously).

    it handles as well - if not better than my previous 306 (that it is based on) albeit a little more floaty around corners. its design is somewhat non-descript, but i prefer that, as it does not attract the "fullly sik" ulehs, and is still european, by badge, although some peeps mistaken it for a kia mentor, or some bland korean/malaysian make!lol

    hey but at least its got more bells and whistles than youd expect from a "european" car in its price range.

    but what makes a citroen a citroen?

    is it just merely badge credability, or lack thereof?

    upsy-downsy suspension?

    what?

    im interested in what newer, and more travelled citroenphiles, think.

    i'd hazard-to-guess that more travelled citroen owners think its a "pretend" citroen.






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  2. #2
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugjet

    i'd hazard-to-guess that more travelled citroen owners think its a "pretend" citroen.
    ...yep pretend

    but these Citroen badged Peugeots are what keeps the real cars floating

    Congrats by the way... welcome to the dim side.

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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Default

    im interested in what newer, and more travelled citroenphiles, think.

    i'd hazard-to-guess that more travelled citroen owners think its a "pretend" citroen.
    Yes in my experience i find people say the new citroens are reallt peugeot cars. Older citroen owners i think dont care as they are too busy with their CX, DS etc and getting them back to original conditions. I dont care really I love all citroens new and old. ( i have rosy glasses as per justin) hehehehehe

  4. #4
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood
    ...yep pretend

    but these Citroen badged Peugeots are what keeps the real cars floating

    Congrats by the way... welcome to the dim sim side.

    Cheers
    Chris
    hey, its an unwanted hand-me-down!haha

    i must be clairvoyient - its the answer i predicted from you, chris

    with that, is a citroen with a more "conventional" set-up e.g. xsara, c3, c2, saxo, etc, etc a "lesser" citroen, than those with a upsy-downsy suspension set-up?

    would be interested to read what owners of citroens with a "convention" suspension set-up write, or anyone else, really.



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    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


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    '95 306S16


    gimme corners. . .


  5. #5
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    What makes a Citroen a Citroen? Definitely the ride. People often say to me, "gees this thing rides better than my modern, 10 times the price car!".

    But yeah it's got the hydraulic suspension so that helps I guess.

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hmm,

    lets see ... To be a *real* Citroen would it need some of the following:

    --center point steering
    --hydraulic suspension
    --interconnected front/rear springs
    --daravi steering
    --massive inboard brakes
    --hydractive suspension
    --active suspension
    --self leveling suspension
    --massive strong hull with panels that are decorative
    --monique type construction back in the 30's
    --headlights that turn with the steering
    --hydraulicly shifted gearbox
    --wishbone/trailing arm suspension
    --none of the shitty struts



    or possibly ...

    Huge big plastic cheesy chevrons on the grill
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Hmm,

    lets see ... To be a *real* Citroen would it need some of the following:
    blah blah blah..............



    or possibly ...

    Huge big plastic cheesy chevrons on the grill
    That'll do me....our Xsara has those

    Chris
    I must agree with pug-jet, the Xsara ride is excellent. I don't know what it is either, but it doesn't have the harsh small car ride of the cars from the asian makers. My brother-in-law has a Hundy 'Sports' wagon , what a joke and it rides like a brick on rubber mats and the seats are like material covered cardboard complete with lumbar lumps.
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  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    The world has changed so much. France is less French today than it was on my first visit 20 years ago, much as their cars have diluted.

    What's a real Citroen? motoring's answer to the questions not yet asked perhaps.

    When I think what makes a Citroen special, I'd agree its mostly the chassis - the 'feel' as you drive off down the road. Combination of a ride that is 2 classes better, handling which is maybe a little rolypoly but ready to surprise, an engine that doesn't feel strained. Little (or big) design oddities help - things like digital speedos, glass roofs etc - but they don't cut it unless there is that feel.

    The 2CV? interlinked, long-travel suspension, surprisingly secure roadholding, big soft comfy seats - you can travel all day and arrive refreshed; comfort and ability well beyond its station and plenty of design innovation. Its one.

    The GS/DS/CX - nobody is arguing the toss here.

    The Xantia (and C5)? Its oleopneumatic so it has that 'feel'. Seats are more ubiquitous and there are few design surprises, but its one.

    The C3? The design cues are there, and the refinement and ride/handling compromise is well towards the Citroen side of normal. Likewise the basic AX's, Visa. Same for the C4, although it relies more on its bling and less on its feel.

    The Xsara? Nice chassis, but it might as well be a Peugeot; not that there is anything wrong with that, but to me it doesn't stand out as strongly charactered to be a 'real' Citroen.
    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie
    The Xsara? Nice chassis, but it might as well be a Peugeot; not that there is anything wrong with that, but to me it doesn't stand out as strongly charactered to be a 'real' Citroen.
    I've been telling friends I drive a Pugtroen. The Xsara Mk.1 is just a 306 under a different skin. My Xsara Mk.2 is a 306 with a 307 motor and tranny. And the C4, it's just a 307 with new toys.

  10. #10
    Tadpole Alan Macoustra's Avatar
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    Bah-humbug, so what xsara/C4,307 Pugs ,they keep the dollars rolling in. So that we can have oeleopneumatic suspension and beutifull Pug coupes. We, sorry my wife drives a xsara and loves it,goes,stops,handles. A french corolla, with style!! If you want white goods go to harvey normans!!!!!!!!!! Young Parisiens are so French.
    To Ride Is Human To Glide Is Divine

  11. #11
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Truely I think this debate about real citroen and not so real citroens, seems to be really an "australian" thing.
    I think in Australia there hasn't been enough models representing the marque on the mainstream market to make an impact. And most people have become (as I am) fans of the unusualness of the few upmarket models imported here.
    In France ,since I was a kid, Citroen always had a plethora of what are now called "conventional" vehicles, I mean everyone had an H van , the cops, the baker, firemen, absolutely everyone and trust me I rode a few and there was nothing "unconventional" about them. You had scores of Ami 6, Ami 8, dyanes, 2cvs, admitedly there rode a little better than renaults but really they were bare bones vehicles, this was light years before Peugeot even thought of buying them out. Therefore I think the misconception that Citroen vehicles all have to be different to be a real Citroen.
    We were able to enjoy the birth of the DS, only because for many years the backbone of the company had been actually quite conventional vehicles. The same as now we will enjoy the creation of the C6 ONLY because for the last few years citroen brought in the bread and butter.
    I really like all Citroens.
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    Fellow Frogger! OG15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    Truely I think this debate about real citroen and not so real citroens, seems to be really an "australian" thing.
    I think in Australia there hasn't been enough models representing the marque on the mainstream market to make an impact. And most people have become (as I am) fans of the unusualness of the few upmarket models imported here.
    In France ,since I was a kid, Citroen always had a plethora of what are now called "conventional" vehicles, I mean everyone had an H van , the cops, the baker, firemen, absolutely everyone and trust me I rode a few and there was nothing "unconventional" about them. You had scores of Ami 6, Ami 8, dyanes, 2cvs, admitedly there rode a little better than renaults but really they were bare bones vehicles, this was light years before Peugeot even thought of buying them out. Therefore I think the misconception that Citroen vehicles all have to be different to be a real Citroen.
    We were able to enjoy the birth of the DS, only because for many years the backbone of the company had been actually quite conventional vehicles. The same as now we will enjoy the creation of the C6 ONLY because for the last few years citroen brought in the bread and butter.
    I really like all Citroens.
    Well said.
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  13. #13
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OG15
    Well said.
    Thank you.
    But truely this no cheap statement. Citroen are above all a mainstream car maker.
    I would even say that if you were to compare the Xsara which is in Todays France a mid-level popular vehicle to the 2cv which was in its time the same: a mid-level popular vehicle, the Xsara would actually (taking of course into account the time factor and its changes)fare much better on most levels all things confounded.
    we seem to think here in Australia that Citroen only makes special and unusual vehicles made to attract the chardonnay elite, nothing is actually further from the truth. They always have made practical reliable no nonsense
    vehicles which somehow here is supposed to be the Peugeot's trademark.
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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    Before they were swallowed up, though, they *did* tend to go off on tangents more, and it can be argued that their cars were definitely more individual. Even - maybe especially - the cheap, light ones. The 2CV and its progeny had a plethora of design features - the roof, the removable panels, the little flat twin, the gearshift, the mechanically linked suspension. The Visa and original/lesser AX's were made super-light, although they were certainly not hugely different from Renault 5/Pug 205 in feel.

    Obviously the Xsara is a Citroen in the way a ZX/AX is, but I still don't reckon it has features that mark it out specifically as a Citroen in the way a C-class Merc is a Merc, a Subaru Liberty a Subaru, a Megane Scenic is a Renault, an Alfa 147 is an Alfa etc etc etc etc etc.

    I know this is a romantic idea, but the question was asked. And if nothing makes a particular car more Citroen, we can all just buy Corollas and Golfs (this is a superior actual car IMHO). So like it or not, a bit of character and individuality is desired by the market. Otherwise, they wouldn't have come up with the ludicrous interior of the C4
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Hmm,

    lets see ... To be a *real* Citroen would it need some of the following:

    --center point steering
    --hydraulic suspension
    --interconnected front/rear springs
    --daravi steering
    --massive inboard brakes
    --hydractive suspension
    --active suspension
    --self leveling suspension
    --massive strong hull with panels that are decorative
    --monique type construction back in the 30's
    --headlights that turn with the steering
    --hydraulicly shifted gearbox
    --wishbone/trailing arm suspension
    --none of the shitty struts



    or possibly ...

    Huge big plastic cheesy chevrons on the grill
    eye sore a C5 wagon in town the other day and having a yarn with the owner Andrew from Fernmount. I discovered it had a Pug engine but the chevrons on the grille is what made me stop and look, if it said KIA I would'nt have taken notice. The thing still had some nice touches as well as the upy downy bit.


    Cooch

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