C2 vs Fiesta (Wheels "Gold Stars")
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! BlackC2's Avatar
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    Default C2 vs Fiesta (Wheels "Gold Stars")

    Yes, I'm buyist but I thought the C2 would've equipped itself well in this article in Wheels about the current best buys. The Ford Fiesta got the nod in what would be the C2's category, but I reckon the Citroen's got it beat (must be why I bought it!). For the purpose of my rantings let's compare the Zetec version - also a 3-door sporty:

    Resale: Fiesta: 56.2% - C2: (Low 50's(?)) The only clear win to the Ford.
    Passive Safety: F: 8.44 on they're scoring - C2: Must be at least the same with four airbags and a four-star EuroCAP rating.
    Service Interval: F: 15,000km - C2: 20,000km
    Warranty: Same for both.
    Insurance: About the same for both if my premium is anything to go by.
    Fuel: F: 6.6l/100km - C2: 6.3l/100km (i.e. 5% better)
    Drive Score: I drove the Fiesta when shopping around. It is a good drive but no better than the C2. You could argue whether the sensodrive puts the C2 above or below the Ford and probably decide both, but I'd say that coming up to a second gear corner in fourth then dabbing at the left-hand gear paddle to change down two gears and hearing the computer "blip" the throttle to match revs is a pretty nice way to enjoy your motoring!

    What the basic comparison doesn't allow is the long list of features (big and small - all surprisingly useful) that the Fiesta can't match:
    Automatic Headlights on,
    Rain-sensing wipers,
    16" alloys (all five) with good Michelin rubber,
    Climate Air,
    Trip Computer,
    Funky rear buckets with individual slide and tilt,
    Horizontal split tailgate with nifty storage compartment in the bottom,
    Chilled Glove Box,
    Funky seat trim and tinted grabhandles and gearknob,
    and...
    A DOUBLE CHEVRON ON THE BONNET!


    OK, my rant has finished. Fellow C2 owners - rejoice! We know something they don't know!

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  2. #2
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackC2
    What the basic comparison doesn't allow is the long list of features (big and small - all surprisingly useful) that the Fiesta can't match:
    Automatic Headlights on,
    Rain-sensing wipers,
    16" alloys (all five) with good Michelin rubber,
    Climate Air,
    Trip Computer,
    Funky rear buckets with individual slide and tilt,
    Horizontal split tailgate with nifty storage compartment in the bottom,
    Chilled Glove Box,
    Funky seat trim and tinted grabhandles and gearknob,
    and...
    A DOUBLE CHEVRON ON THE BONNET!


    OK, my rant has finished. Fellow C2 owners - rejoice! We know something they don't know!
    Erm, you do realise the C2 costs $5000 more than a Fiesta Zetec
    That's more than 27% more.

    27%, that's the difference between a standard Golf 2.0 FSI and a Golf GTI!
    The price gap between base 407 sedan and the V6 sedan is only 20.7%

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    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    Why do Pug owners always have to dampen our parades? grrr
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  4. #4
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Exactly my thinking there Uga! The Citroen is for stylish, thinking people. The frod, is for the rest of the trailer trash! (and as for Vauxhall corsa or holden barina to you guys, that's just a steaming bucket of horses poo!) john s
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    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uga Boga
    Why do Pug owners always have to dampen our parades? grrr
    Truth hurts, ey

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    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Truth hurts, ey
    You want truth? Your equivalent 206 doesn't seem to be doing really well, eh... EH!

    Peugeot is suffering from declining sales in Europe, its biggest market, as customers shun aging models including the 206 subcompact. Stagnating industry demand is fostering ``an aggressive competitive environment'' that prompted the company to reduce output to avoid cutting its margins on the cars it sell.

    Sales of the 206 fell 14 percent in the third quarter to 148,000 units. Peugeot will present the successor car, the 207, in March at the Geneva Motor Show.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...o&refer=europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uga Boga
    You want truth? Your equivalent 206 doesn't seem to be doing really well, eh... EH!



    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...o&refer=europe

    Hehe,

    I wouldn't worry.

    340,000 206s sold till June 30, 2005.
    156,800 C3s sold till June 30, 2005.

    Even though it's, erm, almost 8 years old, it's still outselling the far newer Cit by over 2-1

    5.01 Million 206s sold by June 30, 2005, hah!

    Quote Originally Posted by PSA
    Sales of the Peugeot 407 and CitroŽn C4, both introduced in 2004, were in line with targets, with unit sales of, respectively, 186,100 and 178,800 units. Launched before the summer, the Peugeot 1007, Peugeot 107 and CitroŽn C1 sold, respectively, 40,100, 14,100 and 12,900 units . All of these models are helping to improve the Groupís product mix.
    http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/e...ier.php?id=500

    Isn't it funny how the 407 outsells the C4, despite being in a far smaller segment

    Funny how the 107 outsells the C1.

    Even when things seem the same, looks like the Lion would eat your silly Chevrons for breakfast

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    5.01 Million 206s sold by June 30, 2005, hah!
    Got a URL for this Justin?
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Got a URL for this Justin?
    Here you go Simon - a URL

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    i smell a stoush brewing

    /pours coffe, and gets popcorn

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Here you go Simon - a URL
    Thanks heaps yor that Justin.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  12. #12
    moosey
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    So what's the number one selling car in this fine land of ours? Volume mean jack, boys and girls. If we judged cars on this basis, where would that put Ferrari???

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosey
    So what's the number one selling car in this fine land of ours? Volume mean jack, boys and girls. If we judged cars on this basis, where would that put Ferrari???
    CitroŽn's hardly a niche player in its main markets

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    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
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    Back to the topic, I think the main reason why Wheels seemingly ignored the Citroen C2 has something to do with Citroen refusing to supply motoring journalists with cars to test drive.
    Which is why they haven't rated the Pluriel either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jez 405
    Back to the topic, I think the main reason why Wheels seemingly ignored the Citroen C2 has something to do with Citroen refusing to supply motoring journalists with cars to test drive.
    Which is why they haven't rated the Pluriel either.

    Hmm....i can't see any other reason why a car company would not supply their cars for external tests and reviews to generate more hype and exposure other than that they themselves, believe its deeply flawed.
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    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Hehe,

    I wouldn't worry.

    340,000 206s sold till June 30, 2005.
    156,800 C3s sold till June 30, 2005.

    Even though it's, erm, almost 8 years old, it's still outselling the far newer Cit by over 2-1

    5.01 Million 206s sold by June 30, 2005, hah!



    http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/e...ier.php?id=500

    Isn't it funny how the 407 outsells the C4, despite being in a far smaller segment

    Funny how the 107 outsells the C1.

    Even when things seem the same, looks like the Lion would eat your silly Chevrons for breakfast
    just an objective observation here, but does number of cars sold make a car any better? wouldn't that make the commodore or camry better than both peugeot and citroen?

  17. #17
    moosey
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jools
    just an objective observation here, but does number of cars sold make a car any better? wouldn't that make the commodore or camry better than both peugeot and citroen?
    That was my point in my last post. Citroen isn't a niche player in Europe, nor is Peugeot. Peugeot sells more cars - therefore are they better? No. They just sell more.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Pate's Avatar
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    Sales figures never correlates absolute 'betterness' (did I invent a new word?).

    Sales of a car consists on so many different things: image, sales network, service network, advertising, colour palette, political climate, price, cost of gasoline, cost of insurance, condition of roads, criminal behaviour, traffic culture, is the country arctic or tropic or something in between....bla bla bla

    From the good sales figures one can only draw single conclusion -> good marketing (although good product helps marketing but that's all and that's not decisive factor).

    There isn't any rift between Citroen and Peugeot in Finland.
    We all feel like we are in the same soup. I could buy Citroen C4 next or Peugeot 407 I am concidering them as a different products from same company (PSA).

  19. #19
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    Justin was comparing cars within classes. Thats is a valid comparison. I don't imagine Justin would argue that a Corolla is indeed better than his 307 (Sept '05, Corolla: 4950, 307: 279), however.

    It was Uga who brought up sales figures first.

    Back on topic. 40% of each cars score was based on Wheels (self-confessed) subjective "driver involvement" criteria. So given the fact that Jeremy points out, Wheels has never driven the C2, how can they possibly rank it?

    BlackC2, I recommend you actually read the criteria for each section. Because without the full specifications sheets in front of me, I'd not be quick to assume the Fiesta and C2 would score similarly in safety. Also, unless you are the same as the standard insurance application they used, I'd not assume the insurance premium would be the same either.

    The resale component makes up 20% of the score. Fiesta is 56.2%, and C2 is predictaed as 59%. However, Wheels did not even consider the C2 in the best buys guide since they have never driven it. And on that basis, you would'nt buy it if you could'nt drive it first either, would you? Does'nt mean the C2 is not a better buy, just means Wheels can't recommend it.

  20. #20
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    I hope you all realise I'm just having fun with Uga

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  21. #21
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    I think he was too, Justin

  22. #22
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    It does seem strange, all the same, that the local distributor still hasn't been able (or willing, more's the point) to supply Wheels with something.

    Understandably, when the model was new they were reticent about giving them a car to test with, but it's certainly been around long enough for them to have at least one press car, surely.

    Surely they can't be scared of the Sensodrive thing still (and I'm talking about Wheels' perceived opinion of it, not Justin's ).
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    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    Its no wonder the press don't get Pluriels and C2's. Wheels have lambasted the Sensodrive before and are clearly anti it. And I must say that after reading their comments I would be very circumspect about buying a car so equipped. But people seem to enjoy them. I suppose it takes getting used to - maybe something you can't do in a 1-2 day test drive.

    Shame, because the C2 looks fantastic, great practical interior - bags of character.
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    Fellow Frogger! BlackC2's Avatar
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    People, People! Why do we fight so! We're all on the same (PSA) side here! (True we have to speak a little more slowly to the Peugeot guys so they can understand - but they were on the right track!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    BlackC2, I recommend you actually read the criteria for each section. Because without the full specifications sheets in front of me, I'd not be quick to assume the Fiesta and C2 would score similarly in safety. Also, unless you are the same as the standard insurance application they used, I'd not assume the insurance premium would be the same either.

    The resale component makes up 20% of the score. Fiesta is 56.2%, and C2 is predictaed as 59%. However, Wheels did not even consider the C2 in the best buys guide since they have never driven it. And on that basis, you would'nt buy it if you could'nt drive it first either, would you? Does'nt mean the C2 is not a better buy, just means Wheels can't recommend it.
    Couldn't agree more, so to boost my memory I've picked up the (Fiesta) sales brochure sitting next to me, still fresh from our car hunting expedition, and reminded myself that the Ford would actually score less points according to Wheels criteria in terms of Passive Safety by dint of one less set of Air Bags.

    It also showed a further list of features that the Citroen has over and above the Ford, thereby further justifying the admitidly higher (though not by five grand these days) higher price:

    EBA - as opposed to EBD which they both have
    Full body kit
    12% more power (for what it's worth)
    Four wheel discs (the Ford has rear drums)
    Rear Fog lights
    Two-way adjustable steerign column (F: tilt only)

    These all add up. The Fiesta was impressive; it just didn't have the special occasion feel of the C2 when we met it first time in the metal - this car was different, it was special. The Ford felt much more like it was one of the tens of thousands of others that came before and after it on the production line. Anyone who buys the the Ford is smart; anyone who buys the Citroen is smart - and cares.
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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Seems part of your brain must be removed when you buy a Citroen, surgically, psychicly, magicly? what is is that breeds such rampant 'hey don't forget, ignore, undermine, disreguard us' desperation?

    ed ge

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