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  1. #1
    Tadpole Paulinqld's Avatar
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    Default C4 Shocker

    Wheels Has Listed The Expected Resale Value Of The C4 At, From Memory, About 53 %. Now I Had Heard That Citroens Were Not Treated Very Well At Trade In Time But The Car Is So Gorgeous To Look At I Just Had To Have It. What I'm Hoping For Now Is That The C4 Can Buck The Prediction. Do The Citroen Dealers Give Better Trades Than Non Citroen Dealers ? If So, I Might Now Be Committed To French Cars In The Future But If They Design Them Like The C4 I Would Have No Complaints. Does Anybody Have Some Trade In Stories?

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    Over what period of time is that amount of depreciation down to 53%.
    we saw the Cits at the Sydney Motor Show yesterday
    I thought that the C4 2 door looked fantastic and you don't hit your head when you get into the car. Mind you the black C5 with the sunroof looked very nice.
    I had a good play with it but could not justify the depreciation.
    Citroen had a very good stand I thought and was attracting lots of attention.
    I like Renaults too but I thought that the Renault stand was a bit half-hearted.
    The Megane sedan looks nice from the outside, but I hit my head getting into it and I am average at 5 10" height. There was no Laguna on show - I wonder Why not?

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    There was no Laguna on show - I wonder Why not?
    That would be because they no longer sell that car in Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    That would be because they no longer sell that car in Australia.
    The Laguna Hatch & Estate are still on sale, admittedly they don't sell so many.

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    Fellow Frogger! Reno's Avatar
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    reslae is pretty poor with french cars.

    Peugeot generally have the best resale, and isn't to far off the rest of the market.
    Renault/Citroen are both well below average.

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    i think its just another fallback of the stereotype on french cars...unreliable, mechanical failure, expensive and inconvenient maintenence etc...

    the general public will probably percieve second hand citroens as a "bad egg" dumped off by some frustrated owner who've had enough and want something that actually works...

    and generally speaking, i had a look at a few second hand citroens before i purchased the C4, and i must say on the whole, most were in appaling condition. They all looked like they spent their entire life in the weather, the interior was falling to pieces, scratched...looked like refurbished stolen cars

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    The Laguna Hatch & Estate are still on sale, admittedly they don't sell so many.
    That's old stock. there was a press release monmths ago saying that they would no longer import the laguna.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    That's old stock. there was a press release monmths ago saying that they would no longer import the laguna.
    I know - doesn't mean they're no longer selling it
    It's been that way for a wee while.

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    Have a look around at present and count how many car dealers are hitting the wall. They're drowning in a sea of used cars all depreciating faster than they can sell them and that is all brands. By the time the Government admit there's a problem, half of them will be gone. It happens like this every time historically.
    The main reason this time is that they've pushed the new car barrow so hard and made it so easy to get finance and now that the price of petrol has gone up so everyone is looking to drop their guzzling wank tanks and replace with something they can afford (ie) a Korean throwaway (anyone stupid enough to buy a V8 LandCruiser to drive "Little Sally" to kindy will have no problems getting their head around a $15K death trap "drive away no more to pay" with a 200,000 klms worthless warranty.)
    Prestige cars always have a heavy depreciation and that is regardless of brand and anyone thinking of buying a Citroen as a 2 year replacement cycle car has rocks in their head.
    By their very nature they are more a 10 year turn over rather than a 2 and at that stage they are more than comparable with any thing else. The longer the time goes, the better they look until they reach the totally clapped stage where like any car the resale disappears until they reappear as collectables.
    Presently anyone looking for a cheap BX will be bitterly disappionted. The market is very fickle at any time, but the reputation all these dodgy service people have managed to give them will continue to rub off until a few more get scrubbed out of the industry and French Car Owners will have to carry the burdon in between times.
    Personally speaking, given the way customers are "looked after" by the dealers, there's no way in the World I'd buy a new Citroen and I reckon you'd have to go a long way to find a bigger fan of Cits than I am.
    They're bloody hopeless.


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    What is the government supposed to do about it, Alan?

    4WD sales are still strongly up this year BTW, and the best performing segments are Medium sized SUV's (thanks to Territory largely) and Luxury SUV's. Small and Large SUV's are down slightly.

    Presitage cars have both the best and the worst of depreciation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    What is the government supposed to do about it, Alan?

    4WD sales are still strongly up this year BTW, and the best performing segments are Medium sized SUV's (thanks to Territory largely) and Luxury SUV's. Small and Large SUV's are down slightly.

    Presitage cars have both the best and the worst of depreciation.
    Just keep doing what they're doing now by keeping interest rates artificially low on luxury items, they'll get there; all they need is a bit of good support from their followers.

    Won't say who that is!!


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    I think you need to take depreciation numbers with a grain of salt. If you pay RRP then yes Citroens (& Renaults) do badly compared to industry averages. But most are sold with a huge discount, so the depreciation you see is actually not that bad. This is especially so in the UK, and is getting that way here too.

    Barry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Just keep doing what they're doing now by keeping interest rates artificially low on luxury items, they'll get there; all they need is a bit of good support from their followers.

    Won't say who that is!!


    Alan S
    The government has no say in interest rates on particular things at all.

    Maybe you think they should increase tariffs again?

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    I've seen three different C4's in the Joondalup area in two days. That'd be a record for Citroen in these parts (outer suburbia).

    Just thought I'd say, because it's surprised me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Have a look around at present and count how many car dealers are hitting the wall. They're drowning in a sea of used cars all depreciating faster than they can sell them and that is all brands. By the time the Government admit there's a problem, half of them will be gone. It happens like this every time historically.
    The government may be doing this for several different reasons:

    a) Newer cars are safer, and getting more people into safer cars reduces the toll, and saves them money as the feds pay most of the hospital bills

    b) Newer cars emit less CO2 and other pollutants. This helps reduce the requirements to meet targets they really don't believe in, like Kyoto.

    Yes, I am sort of joking.

    But realistically, I don't think they've really thought about it that much. There is no "Button Plan" for the industry - they lurch from one disaster to another with no clue where they really want to be. They take the good - the average punters thinks that since we have a nice shiny new car, times must be good, and try to avoid the bad, like when Mitsubishi need bailing out or the parts suppliers go bust due to car companies purchasing policies.

    Personally speaking, given the way customers are "looked after" by the dealers, there's no way in the World I'd buy a new Citroen and I reckon you'd have to go a long way to find a bigger fan of Cits than I am.
    They're bloody hopeless.
    Honestly Alan, I know you like your older cars, but have you tried buying a new car recently?

    I have. I helped my mum and dad purchase a car over the last two weeks, and I feel that the majority of dealers tried to look after them as best they could. My mum turned out to be a great negotiator. I gave her some tips, but she got several really good deals out of Ford, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. One well known Japanese brand would not play ball, and luckily, they got no sale as I told them to leave as soon as the dealer started playing hard ball. I told my parents to drive past that dealer and show off their new car when they pick it up tomorrow and let the dealer principle know just how they lost a sale, but I doubt they will. They're too nice.

    But for the main part, the dealers gave my parents lots of time, allowed them to test drive different models, haggle for a while, gave them literature, etc. The sort of things that dealers are supposed to do.

    In the end, the Toyota dealer they saw treated them nicely, let them take the car for a drive without any accompanyment, had a terrific drive away deal on at the time, and discounted further and threw in the floor mats, cruise, a full tank of fuel and metallic paint as part of the deal. The on roads and stamp duty were already part of the deal. They got themselves a bargain. I think I'll take my mum for the next car I buy, she's a tough negotiator.

    Although dealers have a reputation as being one up from the lawyers in terms of profession, it wasn't the case this time.

    thanks,
    Andrew
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    They got themselves a bargain. I think I'll take my mum for the next car I buy, she's a tough negotiator.
    Women seem to have less emotional attachment to cars (in general). Therefore they have less difficulty in "walking away" from a bad deal.

    My sister's experience with dealers was mixed. Holden good, foreign brands bad.

    By their very nature they are more a 10 year turn over rather than a 2 and at that stage they are more than comparable with any thing else.
    Let's be real honest... Citroen and renault, and to a lesser extent Peugeot, are not prestige brands.

    Also, the vast majority of new car buyers are not interested in buying a new car and keeping it for 10 yrs. They usually keep it no longer than 3-5 yrs.

    will have no problems getting their head around a $15K death trap "drive away no more to pay" with a 200,000 klms worthless warranty.)
    An interesting topic. Is a "new" Hyundai Getz safer than a 10+yr old Citroen BX? Discuss

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulinqld
    Wheels Has Listed The Expected Resale Value Of The C4 At, From Memory, About 53 %. Now I Had Heard That Citroens Were Not Treated Very Well At Trade In Time But The Car Is So Gorgeous To Look At I Just Had To Have It. What I'm Hoping For Now Is That The C4 Can Buck The Prediction. Do The Citroen Dealers Give Better Trades Than Non Citroen Dealers ? If So, I Might Now Be Committed To French Cars In The Future But If They Design Them Like The C4 I Would Have No Complaints. Does Anybody Have Some Trade In Stories?
    Interested to know how the C4 compares to other cars in the class - Golf, Astra, 307. Sometimes I think these guys pull numbers out of their $rse to meet a magazine production deadline or something. 3yrs/50% is pretty common across the board in these days of record new car sales. It isn't going to matter what badge is on the front. Even BMW and Benz aren't what they used to be in terms of holding their value. Porsche would probably be one of the few exceptions to this rule - but then most Porsches don't travel 20K a year like other brands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    What is the government supposed to do about it, Alan?

    4WD sales are still strongly up this year BTW, and the best performing segments are Medium sized SUV's (thanks to Territory largely) and Luxury SUV's. Small and Large SUV's are down slightly.
    Personally, I wouldn't mind it if the 4WD tariff rate were raised to 10% (although various BMWs & Mercedes would escape that thanks to the FTA). Don't see any real reason now why 4WDs should pay a lower tariff than standard passenger cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulinqld
    Wheels Has Listed The Expected Resale Value Of The C4 At, From Memory, About 53 %. Now I Had Heard That Citroens Were Not Treated Very Well At Trade In Time But The Car Is So Gorgeous To Look At I Just Had To Have It. What I'm Hoping For Now Is That The C4 Can Buck The Prediction. Do The Citroen Dealers Give Better Trades Than Non Citroen Dealers ? If So, I Might Now Be Committed To French Cars In The Future But If They Design Them Like The C4 I Would Have No Complaints. Does Anybody Have Some Trade In Stories?
    Retained values are lower these days - as those above have said, lower tarrifs, heavier discounting, better availibility are factors. In contrast to this is a steady improvement in the public perception of Citroen, through steady advertising, much better dealer visibility, better acceptance of new technologies as reliable (not that you couldn't survive if your C4's technological-piece-de-resistance-vibrating-seat went out to lunch ).

    Retained values are oft quoted after 3 years and are the percentage trade-in valuation of the RRP. Private sales may well net more, especially if the timing of the sale and condition is right.

    I suppose nobody knows what the C4 will be worth after 3 years yet. If you take the Xsara 2.0 auto - its getting 38% after 3 years trade or 52% private. And asking prices in the paper don't buoy this up that much. Compare the Pug 307 2.0 manual; Redbook says 60% (average of private sale range) down to 43% (average of trade-in range). Bit better, and hopefully the C4 will be a little better again (newer, nicer vs less accepted).

    BTW - how did you capitolise every word in your post .
    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulinqld
    Wheels Has Listed The Expected Resale Value Of The C4 At, From Memory, About 53 %. Now I Had Heard That Citroens Were Not Treated Very Well At Trade In Time But The Car Is So Gorgeous To Look At I Just Had To Have It. What I'm Hoping For Now Is That The C4 Can Buck The Prediction. Do The Citroen Dealers Give Better Trades Than Non Citroen Dealers ? If So, I Might Now Be Committed To French Cars In The Future But If They Design Them Like The C4 I Would Have No Complaints. Does Anybody Have Some Trade In Stories?
    Any reason why all the words in your post start with a capital letter?
    Cheers Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanderaj
    The government may be doing this for several different reasons:

    a) Newer cars are safer, and getting more people into safer cars reduces the toll, and saves them money as the feds pay most of the hospital bills
    Not to mention all the stamp duty they collect from new car registrations.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    An interesting topic. Is a "new" Hyundai Getz safer than a 10+yr old Citroen BX? Discuss
    Depends whether you are talking about passive or active safety. I would think the BX would win on active while the Getz would win on passive, though I don't know what passive safety equipment either comes with, so the BX could still be good in the passive area.

    Personally I'd take an active safety car over a passive one anyday, after all what is the point of having all the airbags in the world if the car doesn't handle.
    Last edited by kermit; 24th October 2005 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Got active and passive around the wrong way.
    Cheers Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Depends whether you are talking about passive or active safety. I would think the BX would win on passive while the Getz would win on active, though I don't know what active safety equipment either comes with, so the BX could still be good in the active area.

    Personally I'd take a passive safety car over an active one anyday, after all what is the point of having all the airbags in the world if the car doesn't handle.
    Other way round - active safety refers to the ability to avoid an accident, passive safety refers to the ability to survive an accident.

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Other way round - active safety refers to the ability to avoid an accident, passive safety refers to the ability to survive an accident.
    Whoops.
    Cheers Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    An interesting topic. Is a "new" Hyundai Getz safer than a 10+yr old Citroen BX? Discuss
    Yeah, definately interesting. The Getz would obviously hold up much better in an accident but it would be interesting comparing a supposedly good handling 80's BX with a new Getz in an accident avoiding situation.

    I'd hope (and expect) that a Getz would handle a brake-and-swerve operation better than my BX (albeit with modern tyres). The BX might have been good all those years ago but chassis dynamics have come a long way since then.

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