BX electric window woes
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default BX electric window woes

    Does anyone have any experience with reluctant electric windows in BXs?

    I have an 89 BX TRI 122 (BTW Ė Iíve always wondered what the 122 represents?) and both front electric windows have now stopped working. It was 32 degrees in Sydney yesterday and I thought it wise to leave the Citroen parked on the street rather than risk asphyxiation.

    Some time ago the passengerís side front window went down and wouldnít go back up so I fiddled about and eventually had to pull the door trim off and ďjumpĒ the motor directly with power from a spare battery which made it wind up. I concluded that this meant the motor itself was OK and the problem lay with the switch or somewhere else.

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    I have also pulled the switches out, pulled them apart, cleaned them with an electronics cleaning solution from Jaycar (I read about this on an earlier thread), carefully dried them out and then re-installed them, but still no luck. I also tried swapping them side to side, again with success.

    When the switch is pressed, the interior light will dim a little as if it is drawing current, but they wonít move up or down.

    I have checked the fuses and they are all good. I have also replaced the relay for the front windows which sits in the fuse box.

    I have recently changed my ignition barrel, but the problem occurred before that little episode.

    Both back windows work fine.

    Does anyone have any ideas?

    Andrew

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    122 is the peak hp of the engine. Not sure about your window problem. Just be glad the actual motors are ok, they strip gears and die eventually which is much worse than an electrical glitch

    Dave


  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! ajpolden's Avatar
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    Hi Andrew,
    Firstly, I reckon the 122 represents the number of horses under your bonnet (power output) - 122hp.

    When you said you had swapped the switches side to side - did mean swapping them front to back (assuming that the switches are of the same kind as per my series 1 BX)?
    What is the voltage at the motor connections when you depress the switch?

    I had a problem with one of mine once, and diagnosed it as the switch. I found however, that I had to use a file to clean the contacts up (I used a small jewellers file)
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  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'd say the winder motor's stuffed.
    I had to do a couple on a TZi a while back.
    One was seized in the mechanicals the other was caput.
    The busted one used to stay trying to wind itself up if the top auto wind up switch was used so not surprising it took the motor out eventually.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    the '122' appears to me to mean :

    --it's got nice shiny 122 badges that the marketing man would have liked
    --it's got the BX16valve dashboard
    --It's got a motor with no more power than the standard TRi, yet burns sh!tloads of oil (which the TRi motor doesn't)

    Given the choice I'd get the TRi as it's motor doesn't tend to burn oil.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Andrew,

    I am working on a process to reduce the oil usage issue that Shane is talking about (and Shane when you find a good one - the 122 engines are much more responsive and more fuel efficient than the low low compression early tri unit).

    Sounds like you are getting voltage drop in the wiring to the windows winder motors somewhere. Try measuring the voltage at the motor, then at the switch going to the motor and finally at the power coming into the switch. This should help to tell where the voltage drop is.

    Have you tried the switches from the back windows? As for cleaning them I always found it helped to try the switches while they were still full of contact cleaner - you get some good sparks and zaps but that seemed to help to resuscitate them - I think they just get full of fluff.

    If you have to start swopping motors, try to get some second hand ones from rear doors as they will have had much less use. A motor from a passenger side rear door will fit the drivers side front door and vica versa.

    Good Luck

    Ken W

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Default Tri122 Oil Usage

    When i owned a TRI 122 the oil consumption issue was easily solved new improved valve stem seals . Instantly oil consumption no more
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  8. #8
    Member dom19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W
    Andrew,

    I am working on a process to reduce the oil usage issue that Shane is talking about (and Shane when you find a good one - the 122 engines are much more responsive and more fuel efficient than the low low compression early tri unit).

    Sounds like you are getting voltage drop in the wiring to the windows winder motors somewhere. Try measuring the voltage at the motor, then at the switch going to the motor and finally at the power coming into the switch. This should help to tell where the voltage drop is.


    Ken W
    Andrew I think Ken W is on the right track.I had a problem once with the lights not working on my car once.Traced the problem to dirty terminals on the fuse box.Too much crud created too much resistance for 12 volts so no lights. Cleaned the terminals with some fine wet & dry, problem solved despite Mr Lucas's best efforts.
    Dom

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Decca's Avatar
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    The driver's door window in my 405 ( maybe the same as BX's??) occassionally wont work. happens about once every 6 - 8 months.
    the first time the gearbox had come loose from the motor so that was permanently fixed by drilling out 2 of the three threaded bolt holes and replacing with nuts and bolts.
    The next time it didnt work I found nothing wrong and it worked after reassembling the door trim

    The subsequent times it has stopped I have given a swift open handed bang on the door trim and it's ok again. Methinks the motor armature occassionally stops in a position where it wont work due to the positions of the commutator and the brushes, and a slight movement ( my banging the door) moves the armature just enough for contact to be made and she's ok for months and months.

    Andrew... check to hear if the relay is operating when you press the switch. If lights are dimming. then something's dragging the voltage down. A dirty connection somewhere will manifest itself noticeably when the current draw gets heavy. A bit of detective work with a digital multimeter is probably your best help.
    Any noise coming from the window motor.? noisey humming type sounds indicates motor is stuffed or load too heavy.


    problem also could be a thermal overload switch. This switch is part of the auto wind up/ down and opens when the motor gets under heavy load such as when the glass is at the end of its travel and extra current draw operates switch in about a second. This switch from memory is attached to the motor.


    Decca
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! doggiedog's Avatar
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    I wouldnt fill the switches up with contact cleaner then try it, as contact cleaner these days (or the crc brand anyway) is highly flammable.
    I found out the hard way at work trying to get a d.c motor (turbine speeder gear)running by spraying it on the brushes.
    We now call it the annual burning of the speeder gear motor!!

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHRIVAL
    When i owned a TRI 122 the oil consumption issue was easily solved new improved valve stem seals . Instantly oil consumption no more
    Dear All,
    Thanks for your comments and suggestions on the electric windows. I will pull off the door trims this weekend and have a poke around with a multi meter and see what I can find.

    I was interested to hear comments on oil consumption for my model BX (TRI 122). When I bought the car a few years ago it was a bit smokey so I pulled the head off and replaced the valve stem oil seals and a couple of valves for good measure (it had done 200K). It's never seemed to use much (if any) oil between changes ever since.

    As for the engine generally, I must say Iíve always been impressed by its fat torque band. Combined with the carís light weight, itís a pretty torquey car to drive. But it doesnít produce a lot of power; when the motor revs it just makes more noise! I wonder whether this is all a product of those long tracts on the inlet manifold and the ram effect they create at low revs? I've not driven a 16V, but do they have more torque than the 8V, or are they all about squeezing out 160hp at high revs?

    Lastly, I should share my experience with the timing belts on this model. After pulling the cylinder head off to replace valve stem oil seals, I incorrectly put the new head gasket on upside down (I was in a hurry). This meant, of course, that an oil gallery that supplies oil to the cylinder head was blocked and the camshaft ended up seizing in the head. I was surprised at how far it drove, sans lubricating oil, before seizing (about 15km). I was more surprised by the fact that the brand new rubber timing belt didnít break. Instead, the bolt which holds on the cam wheel sheared off and broke the little locating key. Stranger still was the fact that despite having no timing belt in place, the motor stalled instantaneously and pistons and valves never did touch! In the end, all the wrongs were eventually righted by a clever machinist who tunnel bored(?) the camshaft pedestal bearings, polished the camshaft up, checked out everything else (new cam wheel, another new belt etc.) and it has never been better. Those rubber cam belts are certainly strong when they are brand newÖ

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Default 16v- Tri 122

    I have found that the 16v BX is much coarser than the TRI both in motor behaviour and gearbox but it comes into its own when cained less power below 2000rpm then biulds to about 3500 then the fun starts and 5000 to rev limiter is dynamic and the car will pull 6500 in in 5th if you can find the road and keep on it .I found the TRI a much more civilized car around town and for gentle cruising softer ride and better economy also less speeding fines but then nothing beats the 16v above 140-150 kph except a nasty cross wind or the big white bruiser I wish I could find the time to get the CX finished
    but you can'nt spend it unless your making it
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHRIVAL
    nothing beats the 16v above 140-150 kph except a nasty cross wind or the big white bruiser I wish I could find the time to get the CX finished
    but you can'nt spend it unless your making it

    You haven't driven the turbo much have you ....... It should easily beat your 16valve at those speeds, and be more stable in doing so

    seeya,
    Shane L
    PS: Just don't watch the fuel guage
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  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    You haven't driven the turbo much have you ....... It should easily beat your 16valve at those speeds, and be more stable in doing so

    seeya,
    Shane L
    PS: Just don't watch the fuel guage
    .............and you haven't driven a 16V much. Remember that these engines start to boogey when they hit 4500 rpm and I can tell you these things will nail you in the seat at that speed.
    Coming back from Sydney I was on a "certain" stretch of highway and capped a rise in time to see the local constabulary just over it doing his thing with paper and pen. It's a no phone coverage area and too far away from his base to get radio coverage, a real blackspot, so as I was already in there doing around 140+ I just gave it a hit up to around 180+ and he just took one look, shook the head and kept on writing. There was no way he was going to waste time on me.
    Driving 16Vs is an art form at any time as a couple on here have discovered and whilst I have no doubt the CX turbo would give them a shake and might stay with one, I think the light weight, high end torque and aerodynamics of the 16V would hold it in good stead.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    .............and you haven't driven a 16V much. Remember that these engines start to boogey when they hit 4500 rpm and I can tell you these things will nail you in the seat at that speed.
    Coming back from Sydney I was on a "certain" stretch of highway and capped a rise in time to see the local constabulary just over it doing his thing with paper and pen. It's a no phone coverage area and too far away from his base to get radio coverage, a real blackspot, so as I was already in there doing around 140+ I just gave it a hit up to around 180+ and he just took one look, shook the head and kept on writing. There was no way he was going to waste time on me.
    Driving 16Vs is an art form at any time as a couple on here have discovered and whilst I have no doubt the CX turbo would give them a shake and might stay with one, I think the light weight, high end torque and aerodynamics of the 16V would hold it in good stead.

    Alan S
    Only one way to find out .... Are you going to be at Dubbo next year

    I'm sure the 160hp version would be door to door with the CX until they both hit there rev limiters in top ......

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: You'll have to try the CX now she's running right .... Your gunna be really surprised.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  16. #16
    Member docchevron1472's Avatar
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    I'm sure the 160hp version would be door to door with the CX until they both hit there rev limiters in top ......

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    A 16v in fine fettle will (or at least, should) burn a CX turbo 1 fairly easily. However a CX turbo 2 should, theoretically, beat a 16v.
    That said, once you know how to, er, enjoy! a 16v properly, there aint much it cant devour. I had a race with some young punk in a modied andd tuned 205 1.9 GTI. He was giving it well large round the Avon ring road and I felt obliged! Thankfully didn't see any members of the local constabulary, which was handy since I went passed him at 135mph and just crept the beast off the clock down a long slope! Never saw the 205 again!
    BX 19RD Hybrid, BX 16Valve Phase 2 , BX 19GTI Hurricane, unique BX 17TD Automatic

  17. #17
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    OOOOOOHHH, there's gonna be a drag race!! I look foreward to it!
    john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  18. #18
    Member docchevron1472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    OOOOOOHHH, there's gonna be a drag race!! I look foreward to it!
    john s
    Anytime you wana have a drag with your CX I'll happily show you how fast a BX 16v is as you'll be dining on my dust!! Once I've done the wishbone bushes anyway
    BX 19RD Hybrid, BX 16Valve Phase 2 , BX 19GTI Hurricane, unique BX 17TD Automatic

  19. #19
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I think I might take a little trip up to Hull, to see Mr CGAT!!! Then we shall see who has the fastest car!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  20. #20
    Member docchevron1472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    I think I might take a little trip up to Hull, to see Mr CGAT!!! Then we shall see who has the fastest car!! john s
    No probs I'll just fit solid tappets, change the crank damper, re-chip the ECU so the old girl should rev to 10000RPM and it'll still eat any car for breakfast!!
    BX 19RD Hybrid, BX 16Valve Phase 2 , BX 19GTI Hurricane, unique BX 17TD Automatic

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