BX Timing belt question
  • Help
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! tlampre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    167

    Default BX Timing belt question

    Hi All,

    Advertisement


    I got my little BX back yesterday after being serviced by Paris Motors here in Melbourne. Quite happy with their work and attitude, the car is running really sweet, but I will probably try French Connection next time for comparisons sake.

    We discussed the timing belt as there are no records for the car. It's done 158,000K so hopefully it's been replaced at least once in its life. In any case, it is certanly about due and I like to know for sure.

    I would like to do the job myself. I'm mechanically competent, changed head gaskets, clutches etc on my own cars and grew up helping a car-nut father, so I don't anticipate problems. I'll be studying my Haynes manual over the weekend.

    However, any tips before I take the plunge would be welcome. Especially the '...while your in there you may as well...' types of advice.

    It's an '85 TRS auto.

    Thanks and regards,
    Trevor

    P.S. Does anyone know where I can get a factory workshop manual? I've always preferred to get a set of these as well as the DIY'ers ones.
    Last edited by tlampre; 15th September 2005 at 07:19 PM. Reason: oops, '85, not '95

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,754

    Default

    It's good to hear from people that have positive experiances with the Citroen repairers. You shouldn't have any problems with the timing belt, the haynes manual describes the replacement quite well. Just check the waterpump and tensioners, if there bearings are suspect they'll need to be replaced.

    I quickly bash up a webpage a few years back about it .... I can't get to my website at the moment, but it should be under "BX".

    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Camperdown, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    624

    Default

    I think that I would be replacing the waterpump every 2nd timing belt no matter - the hassle of getting in there makes it worth doing all at once - and the pump is not all that expensive (well compared to a pump for an A/C DS ).

    Paul
    Paul Smith

    1974 DS23 EFI BW Auto
    1974 G Special 1220


    http://www.simplicitas.com.au

  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    A lot of this is factory stuff and is worth downloading and ddropping onto CD for future reference.

    http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,665

    Default

    As this is the second belt (or should be) I agree with Paul - it's probably worth changing the pump.

    However, if you want to leave it, you should check for three things - bearing play and roughness, and seal resistance. If the bearings feel rough at all or there's play - change the pump. Likewise, if there is practically no resistance to turning the shaft, it's also recommended that you change the pump, as the seals are worn. Once the inner seal goes, the bearing will go and the pump could sieze.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    As this is the second belt (or should be) I agree with Paul - it's probably worth changing the pump.

    However, if you want to leave it, you should check for three things - bearing play and roughness, and seal resistance. If the bearings feel rough at all or there's play - change the pump. Likewise, if there is practically no resistance to turning the shaft, it's also recommended that you change the pump, as the seals are worn. Once the inner seal goes, the bearing will go and the pump could sieze.

    Stuey
    I agree, do the pump as well, I have just had to rip everything off twice on a ZD STI 505 - First time to do the belt (pump seemed OK then ) and when I had finished it all off the damm pump sprung a leak so had to do it again!

    I also advise you to check around on prices for the pump as I reckon I paid too much.
    So many projects - so little time.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    However, if you want to leave it, you should check for three things - bearing play and roughness, and seal resistance. If the bearings feel rough at all or there's play - change the pump. Likewise, if there is practically no resistance to turning the shaft, it's also recommended that you change the pump, as the seals are worn. Once the inner seal goes, the bearing will go and the pump could sieze.

    Stuey
    The seal normally goes after the new belt is installed anyway due to the extra tension of the new belt.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,665

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    The seal normally goes after the new belt is installed anyway due to the extra tension of the new belt.
    I'd suggest that that's only if there is also bearing wear or play, however small.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    The timing belt kit on a Trs comes with a tensioner as part of the kit. I'm not sure whether it also includes the pump, but ask the question when you order.
    Personally, I reckon these are worse than a 16V to fit a cambelt to and if you're going to do a bit of DIY, I think I'd start on something a bit simpler than a cambelt given the potentially devastating results if it all goes wrong.
    Might be a good job to try Dave at French Connection on.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bristol/England!
    Posts
    1,486

    Default

    I find working on an 8v XU/D cambelt quite easy, as there are holes provided for you to lock the engine in the right place. as long as you set the tension properly, and tighten the locknut, it's straight foreward.
    I tend to agree with Alan though, if you are a novice with car mechanics, you would be better off getting someone to do it for you, as there is a real risk of trashing your engine if you misunderstand the instructions! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    I got no problems locking sprockets and setting the cam timing etc, my problems with this is access. What a bloody nightmare!!
    Trying to work that lock nut and 1/4" square on the end of the cam on the tensioner if you haven't done a couple before and don't have decent access.
    My problem of course being I tended to be too fat, too stiff in the bones, too arthritic in the fingers, too short sighted and overall too awkward. I'd say up on a hoist, over a pit or on a decent ramp it wouldn't be too bad, but at axle stand height on a concrete floor I found it a major hassle to gain access.
    Once that was gained, it went like silk from there. Unfortunately, even raising the engine a couple of inches with an engine crane gave little advantage.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  12. #12
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I got no problems locking sprockets and setting the cam timing etc, my problems with this is access. What a bloody nightmare!!
    This is the same engine as in the 405/205 isn't it? If so access is a cow... (i actually got to removing the tensioner before my engine was abandoned...)

    Anyway, i paid $120 for the VRS, $25.50 for the cambelt, $66 for the waterpump and about $60 for the tensioner... As the Haynes instructs you to loosen the nuts on the tensioner anyway, i think it would be a good idea to replace it... and while you are there, the waterpump isn't that bigger deal...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
    205 Mi16
    505 GTi

  13. #13
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bristol/England!
    Posts
    1,486

    Default

    I found if you remove the right front road wheel, you can have slightly easier access through the wheel arch. It is a bit of a pain, but at least you don't have to remove the whole engine or anything silly like that.
    The diesel version is a bit more fun, as ther is one more sprocket to lock, and the cam belt actually passes through the right engine mounting. I found if you take it nice and slowly, and approach it methodically, and not rush it, it's not too bad a job at all.
    I once blew the head gasket on my C15D van (1768cc) and it warped the head.
    I went to my local scrappy, and took a head off a BX 19 Diesel, walked home with it, and I managed to change the cylinder head at the side of the road!!!
    In case you guys don't know, the heads and head gaskets on the 17, and 19 engines are interchangable. The only thing you need to look for, is the shape of the inlet manifold holes. Some are round, and some are square.
    Same thing for the petrol engine. However, Don't try to swap a 16 head for a 19, coz it won't work!!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Smiffy,

    Either we're talking two different cars or two different jobs.
    The ones I've done or seen done have all had the front wheel off and the innerguard removed. That gives access to the front of the engine to lock cams and cranks etc; this never seems a problem. Where the problems arise, is with the work that has to be done behind the backing plate that the cambelt cover fits over and on to. That fool of a square headed bolt with a locking nut that's in a position that can be felt but not seen. I've seen engines raised, bottom engine mounts off, driveshaft removed all done just to get access to it and a couple of bolts carefully hidden in there.
    I recently looked at a 16 enginge sitting on a bench and my immediate commentwas "now I can see why they thought it was a good idea" (which it is when the engine's out of the car, but almost impossible when in there) and I have also seen the similar model up on a hoist and again, it's not all that bad if you can manipulate yourself into various contortions, but as a DIY proposition lying on your back with limited access and working in a confined space, almost an impossibility unless you're extremely short, thin and agile.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  15. #15
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bristol/England!
    Posts
    1,486

    Default

    Hehe, I never said it was easy, just "slightly easier"!!!!
    I agree totally, that the job is still a pain in the bum!
    john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! tlampre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    The timing belt kit on a Trs comes with a tensioner as part of the kit. I'm not sure whether it also includes the pump, but ask the question when you order.
    Personally, I reckon these are worse than a 16V to fit a cambelt to and if you're going to do a bit of DIY, I think I'd start on something a bit simpler than a cambelt given the potentially devastating results if it all goes wrong.
    Might be a good job to try Dave at French Connection on.


    Alan S
    Thanks for the advice. I'm no novice and I'm extremely patient, not to mention a perfectionist. Nearly all my cars (and fathers) were front drivers and I have fond memories of holding gearboxes over my head in a space with about 3mm clearance while my father was topside trying to line up the shaft. He would say encouraging things like, "Wiggle it a bit!"

    "You wiggle it! My bloody arms are about to drop off!"

    Fortunately I don't need the car to get to work, so I can leave it in bits while I chase parts/special tools or need to take time to ruminate on stubborn or inaccessible bolts.

    However, I've been without wheels for some time and I'd like to spend time driving it as well as well tinkering with it so I may get this job done professionally by someone I can trust. Not to mention getting it checked to see what a certain 'Independent Citroen Specialist' may have overlooked.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! tlampre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    It's good to hear from people that have positive experiances with the Citroen repairers.
    Well, I've changed my mind about them now. I posted something about it but it has disappeared. Did I violate some sort of rule?

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,754

    Default

    If you have a set of ramps, some basic tools and common sense, the cambelt change should be a peice of cake.

    Certainly I don't remember it being difficult as such. Access is a b!tch, then again it's a Citroen so I kind of expect that.

    Here's the page I did on it (Gee's that needs some fixing up)

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane/bx/...t/cambelt.html

    This is the access you have, I didn't need to remove the engine mount or anything, I just threaded the belt up and through (I did the same thing with the Xantia too.... It's really not that bad).

    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! tlampre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    unless you're extremely short, thin and agile.
    You mean, like a typical Frenchman?

  20. #20
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tlampre
    You mean, like a typical Frenchman?
    An anorexic one at that.
    Incidentally Shane, why don't you point to the cam locking bolt and lock nut in the pic you posted?

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    An anorexic one at that.
    Incidentally Shane, why don't you point to the cam locking bolt and lock nut in the pic you posted?

    Alan S
    You've lost me ... I'm not sure what your talking about There's a cam-locking bolt

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  22. #22
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    No, I'm flying in & out like firt in a bottle at present so I should have been clearer; the one on the cam lobe that locks/unlocks the tensioner.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •