CX Pulling to the left
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default CX Pulling to the left

    Yo Froggers

    I have finally got my sons CX registered and apart from some little things and the steering the car seems great. The little things I can deal with (no jokes please) but the steering has me at 6s & 7s.

    When driving straight the the steering wheel is off centre and is fighting against the steering centering effect. Let the wheel go and the car wants to veer left. Checked tyre pressures and even rotated them. Wheel alignment I'm thinking?

    Hoo roo

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    Cooch

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Wheel alignment, tie rod end or lower control arm in that order and cost from smallest to largest and degree of difficulty.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Let me guess ... You had the front end aligned yes ????

    What you need to do is go somewhere that does 4wheel alignments and request they set the front end with the motor running . This upsets there equipment and they probably will not want to do it.

    Failing that, get the toe in checked, if it's ok you have two choices:

    --reach through the wheel arch and adjust the centering cam (the coupling where the steering column meets the steering rack).
    --Easier, but long winded (due to you having access). Put the car on high, full lock on the steering and adjust both front tracking tubes THE IDENTICAL AMOUNT. What this does is keep the toe in the same, but moves the center point of the steering.

    Now find yourself a nice straight peice of road, either adjust the centering cam, or both tracking rods ... Then drive down the road. Keep adjusting until the car drives straight.

    It should be simple, but front end alignment poeple find it very scarey and refuse to touch it usually.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Let me guess ... You had the front end aligned yes ????

    What you need to do is go somewhere that does 4wheel alignments and request they set the front end with the motor running . This upsets there equipment and they probably will not want to do it.

    Failing that, get the toe in checked, if it's ok you have two choices:

    --reach through the wheel arch and adjust the centering cam (the coupling where the steering column meets the steering rack).
    --Easier, but long winded (due to you having access). Put the car on high, full lock on the steering and adjust both front tracking tubes THE IDENTICAL AMOUNT. What this does is keep the toe in the same, but moves the center point of the steering.



    Now find yourself a nice straight peice of road, either adjust the centering cam, or both tracking rods ... Then drive down the road. Keep adjusting until the car drives straight.

    It should be simple, but front end alignment poeple find it very scarey and refuse to touch it usually.

    seeya,
    Shane L.


    Thanks boys,

    Shane, no I as yet have not had the steering aligned. When I swaped tne front wheels the effect on the steering was less and now I'm thinking it might be the camber on the road.
    Do you think this would be enough to have the steering wheel say 1/4" at the rim, into the power rsistance?

    Looks good for option 2 ha

    Cooch

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Have you also checked the rear arm bearings?
    Pump the cars suspension right up and walk about 20 feet behind it and look at the rear wheels.
    If they are like this / - \ or | - \ the rear arm bearings have collapsed and these will sometimes have an adverse effect on steering. If they both seem to be like this | - | then take a close look at any tyre that has come off and see if it appears to be wearing on the inside. I got caught with my 16V with this. I had steering problems, particularly under power and put it down as torque steer caused by using directional tyres on the front, mainly because the problem seemed to start immediately they were fitted.
    I discovered it by accident when I had one of the boys drive me back from visiting and as he drove over the gate hump into the paddock, the rear wheel clunked and moved to and fro as it rode over the hump.
    When removed, it was totally destroyed, so the old system of assessing by the wheels looking knockneed isn't always a true guide.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    My 22TRS steers slightly to the right, and I have a left rear bearing that is known to be bad. If you are right Alan, when I do the bearing this weekend, the problem will be gone? I do hope so! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    My CX still follows camber on only one or two roads I drive along ... It seriously p!$$es me off no end .... You see, I've done both rear arm bearings, the front passenger side, however have yet to rebuild the front drivers side suspension. I'm hoping once I've done the front drivers side this behaviour will stop. It only happens on 0.0005% of roads ... but it still p!$$es me off.

    CX's have proper suspension geometry and no cr@ppy struts, they should run arrow straight regardless of the road conditions ... Even if you shred a tire or lose a wheel ... It should still run arrow straight.

    BX's and Xantia follow cambers etc... I'm not a big fan of there suspension setup.

    Alans right, the rear arm bearings will cause wandering, on early CX's the steering knuckle/rack eye bush breaks down rapidly. This will lead to torque steer once it gets bad. I feel maybe it's the lower arm bushes the may cause slight wandering (they are worn on the drivers side of my car).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Your CX has the same problem as mine as it also veers to the left.
    I have had the DIRAVI set a couple of times and the tie rod ends adjusted but the main problem is the huge movement in the lower arm bushes on the passenger side.
    Every time the front is up and the wheel is off the movement seems to be worsening to the point now that there is a sudden loss of grip 3/4 the way into a sweeping right handed bend....scary and it just wanders about so much I often have to grip the wheel really hard...just like a normal car!
    I will be ordering some bushes and possibly a lower ball joint today so I can get it fixed soon. I was putting it off until November but it must be done as it is a safety issue now and my new tyres are wearing very fast.
    I am still convinced that my CX rides just like a D, it is just beautiful and when the suspension is fixed it will be very nice I think.
    Good luck with this Cooch and do the shake test with the left side jacked up, you will see the movement and where it is if that is the problem.
    Cheers, Andy

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Andy keep your eye's on ebay.com. At the moment there is a top ball joint there for 5quid (I've got them as low as 99pence). Ensure you get a quote on postage before bidding. I'm waiting for a pair of lower arm bushes to appear on ebay. If they do don't bid 'cos there mine !!!! I've already got the top and lower ball joints off ebay, but so far no arm bushes.

    If the lower arm bushes are gone, I can guarantee the top ball joint will also have considerable wear. You will also need new bearings for the top arm....

    If your going to attempt this one yourself let me know and I'll see if I can find an arm to send upto you. I can press the new ball joint in and top arms bearings for free. Postage will be a consideration though.

    The difficulty of this task depends entirely on if the big bolts that retain the arms will come out.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Andy keep your eye's on ebay.com. At the moment there is a top ball joint there for 5quid (I've got them as low as 99pence). Ensure you get a quote on postage before bidding. I'm waiting for a pair of lower arm bushes to appear on ebay. If they do don't bid 'cos there mine !!!! I've already got the top and lower ball joints off ebay, but so far no arm bushes.

    If the lower arm bushes are gone, I can guarantee the top ball joint will also have considerable wear. You will also need new bearings for the top arm....

    If your going to attempt this one yourself let me know and I'll see if I can find an arm to send upto you. I can press the new ball joint in and top arms bearings for free. Postage will be a consideration though.

    The difficulty of this task depends entirely on if the big bolts that retain the arms will come out.

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    Well froggers there was one thing I noticed when my mechanic was doing the road worthy for rego. With the car on the shassis supporting hoist, the only worn or loose thing was that the front suspension cylinder could be moved up down about 1/4". Normal or the root of all evil?

    Will have a look at the the rear bearings tomorrow, can you feel looseness in the rear setup when jacked up?

    Speaking of tomorrow, I am going to put inhibitor in the cooling system, so I have to flush . Do you think I can find the engine block drain plug? Nooo I know its in the front of the engine under the exaust manifold but I cant even feel it. Looks like I might have to take the sump guard off.

    the motor is painted orange, this standard or a reco?

    Cooch

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yeah the motor is orange.

    I'd just whip the radiator out and get it 'rodded', even if it's not blocked, it's nice to know it's ok.

    The anti-roll bar will need to be unbolted if your looking for rear arm bearing slack (there is two bolts).

    I'm not surprised he found no slack with the wheels dangling... Nothing is in the normal position of wear

    Yep the suspension cylinder should float around contained only by a small clip when not under pressure.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooch Goodwin
    Well froggers there was one thing I noticed when my mechanic was doing the road worthy for rego. With the car on the shassis supporting hoist, the only worn or loose thing was that the front suspension cylinder could be moved up down about 1/4". Normal or the root of all evil?

    Will have a look at the the rear bearings tomorrow, can you feel looseness in the rear setup when jacked up?

    Speaking of tomorrow, I am going to put inhibitor in the cooling system, so I have to flush . Do you think I can find the engine block drain plug? Nooo I know its in the front of the engine under the exaust manifold but I cant even feel it. Looks like I might have to take the sump guard off.

    the motor is painted orange, this standard or a reco?

    Cooch
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Yeah the motor is orange.

    I'd just whip the radiator out and get it 'rodded', even if it's not blocked, it's nice to know it's ok.

    The anti-roll bar will need to be unbolted if your looking for rear arm bearing slack (there is two bolts).

    I'm not surprised he found no slack with the wheels dangling... Nothing is in the normal position of wear

    Yep the suspension cylinder should float around contained only by a small clip when not under pressure.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Thanks for that Shane I will check it all when the sun comes up, one quick Q, I notice the rear suspeneion seems to be a lot more supple than the front. normal like me or slightly wrong like my sister?

    The front is nice and soft when you bounce it up n down (no sister jokes) but on the road the front seems to be, well stiffer over bumps n potholes.

    BTW I was cruising the members list and my old aussiefrog name (forgot my password) is there above my new one, so you may delete the old Cooch in favour of the new improved Cooch Goodwin.

    Cooch
    Last edited by Cooch Goodwin; 15th September 2005 at 01:12 AM. Reason: Just another thought

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooch Goodwin
    Yo Froggers

    I have finally got my sons CX registered and apart from some little things and the steering the car seems great. The little things I can deal with (no jokes please) but the steering has me at 6s & 7s.

    When driving straight the the steering wheel is off centre and is fighting against the steering centering effect. Let the wheel go and the car wants to veer left. Checked tyre pressures and even rotated them. Wheel alignment I'm thinking?

    Hoo roo

    Cooch
    The lowest cost solution is to confine yourself to left hand bends. A slightly more expensive solution is to buy a second one that drifts to the right, which you can then use to go home.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I had a CX last year that pulled to the left, I had the wheel alignment checked, no improvement, the ran one tyre at 20 psi and one at 40 psi , and it still was the same. Any conventional car would have been all over the place with those tyre pressures.

    If its not the rear suspension affecting it, you will have to fix the centering on the steering, as shane outlined above by shifting the cam, or altering the tie rod ends. The last method will cause the steering wheel to be in a different position at straight ahead.


  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed
    The lowest cost solution is to confine yourself to left hand bends. A slightly more expensive solution is to buy a second one that drifts to the right, which you can then use to go home.
    I hear you. Maybe if I get the wife to drive on the way home

    Seriously though I think Ill try the centering cam adjuetment avenue.

    Road sign, if you have a texta handy DETOUR DE EIFEL
    Last edited by Cooch Goodwin; 15th September 2005 at 11:47 PM. Reason: another thought

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