CX LHM system bleeding
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  1. #1
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Default CX LHM system bleeding

    Hi guys, Well today I got my CX turbo off the blocks, and err, umm, <whispers very quietly> i went for a little spin up the road.
    My god, I'd forgotten just how fast they are, ooh missus!!!!!

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    Mind you, it was a usefull exercise, as it showed up some things that need attention. The car had sat with no LHM reservoir in it for some time, and it was my mate who put it back in for me. The pump is primed ok, and the suspension rises and falls just like it should.
    The steering feels bloody horrible, notchy, and doesn't always return to the centre.
    The brakes are frighteningly in-effective!!!
    So, I surmise that there is a huge air lock in the system somewhere.
    What is the sequence for bleeding the system? Not just the brakes, but the Diravi too! I arleady did the rear brakes, cos i re-piped them, and there is a clean flow of LHM from the nipples.
    john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    Hi guys, Well today I got my CX turbo off the blocks, and err, umm, <whispers very quietly> i went for a little spin up the road.
    My god, I'd forgotten just how fast they are, ooh missus!!!!!

    Mind you, it was a usefull exercise, as it showed up some things that need attention. The car had sat with no LHM reservoir in it for some time, and it was my mate who put it back in for me. The pump is primed ok, and the suspension rises and falls just like it should.
    The steering feels bloody horrible, notchy, and doesn't always return to the centre.
    The brakes are frighteningly in-effective!!!
    So, I surmise that there is a huge air lock in the system somewhere.
    What is the sequence for bleeding the system? Not just the brakes, but the Diravi too! I arleady did the rear brakes, cos i re-piped them, and there is a clean flow of LHM from the nipples.
    john s
    Hey Smiffy,

    we'll need more details ... Sounds like you pump is sucking air ... You do NOT need to bleed the hydraulics, they self bleed ... Air should NOT affect them to any great extent.

    Your braking issues trouble me ... The brake system has priority over all else, I simply can't see how the brakes could be ineffective unless you were not getting hydraulic pressure up.

    Does the pump cycle in and out ??? The only braking issue that air will cause is brake delays ...... big delays if there is lots of air in the brake system. ie: if you stand on the brakes they may take several seconds to start to work ... But they will still be potent and strong when they do work.

    Explain "notchy" daravi, do you mean the power steering keeps running out ???

    Sounds like you have problems with the high pressure side of the system. Let us know if the regulator is "cutting in" and the cycling as it should.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    The pump cycling was a bit erratic, sometimes 10 seconds, sometimes 30.
    If you steer left, it feels normal, but if you steer right, it can stick. It does seem to run out of power steering. The brakes are worse than the mini I used to have! I know there is a bleed nipple on the dosieur valve, and one on the steering column.
    Still, on the plus side, all the interior is finished, exept the glove box, which is a pain in the bum, I can't get it to fit on the pegs.
    john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The car wasn't doing this prior to being crashed ???


    I suggest checking every hydraulic line you have replaced and ensure it's plugged into the right spot (whenever I have something weird hapen my first check is ALWAYS what I last touched. Without fail it's always something I've buggered up myself ).

    Can you compare the hydraulic lines to your Athena ?? I'm thinking the turbo may be different as it has ABS.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: The reason I'm thinking piping is your brakes should never, ever, ever, ever be weak where you have system pressure.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    No, the car was perfectly fine before the unfortunate arguement with the Kraut wagen! I will check how the pipes look on the 22TRS, as the rear end is more or less the same on both cars. It is possible that I've put the pipes the wrong way round. It wouldn't surprise me that much! Will let you know next time I'm up there. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    I have an idea why my brakes feel horrible. The car's been laid up for 18 months, so sticky pistons!
    I once had a motorbike, that you had to grab a handfull of brake, but it made only a small effort to stop. The CX feels much the same. As I have some new front pads to go in anyway, I will check that pistons are free to move. As for the steering, there might be air in the steering column. If not, I'm told by Stan Platts that I might need to change the column. God I hope not, the job was bad on the car I scrapped, let alone on one that still has engine, and dash board still inside!!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    I have an idea why my brakes feel horrible. The car's been laid up for 18 months, so sticky pistons!
    I once had a motorbike, that you had to grab a handfull of brake, but it made only a small effort to stop. The CX feels much the same. As I have some new front pads to go in anyway, I will check that pistons are free to move. As for the steering, there might be air in the steering column. If not, I'm told by Stan Platts that I might need to change the column. God I hope not, the job was bad on the car I scrapped, let alone on one that still has engine, and dash board still inside!!! john s
    The daravi controller usually gets heavy in the left direction. If it's not I doubt it's the controller (I am however willing to be proven wrong).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  8. #8
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I don't even want to think about pulling that lot to bits, I can honestly say it's an ar$Ä of a job to do!!! Lets just hope that bleeding it might help. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Member docchevron1472's Avatar
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    I suspect air could be an issue, however I've known it before where a car has been laid up for a long period of time that the HP pumps can dry out and cease to pump effectively. Seized pistons are likley, working the pistons in and out repeatedley usually free's them off. Cars dont like sitting around doing nothing, it wouldn't surprise me if things some back to life with general usage. Flat spheres could be an issue aswell (Esp. the regulator)
    BX 19RD Hybrid, BX 16Valve Phase 2 , BX 19GTI Hurricane, unique BX 17TD Automatic

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Do you get that nasty goo caked onto the piston like you do with an ordinary brake fluid car? john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  11. #11
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    Well, Chris (docchevron) and I did a bit to the car this evening, the pistons in the front calipers were stuck like glue! They were a real bugger to push back in, but they eventually freed off. It seems that I have a warped disc on the front, and a rusty one on the back. So, she will be getting a full set. Obviously, this means you need to separate the halves of the caliper, so it can have a set of seals while I'm at it.
    The steering, turns out to be nothing more than a nearly flat tyre. (well, it was dark!!)
    Next problem, the starter motor has died.

    KNICKERS!!!!
    john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Good luck freeing the brake pistons .... How the bloody hell can something be seized with several thousand pounds of pressure behind it

    It's simply unheard of out here. To pop the pistons out I usually just hook an air hose upto them. You may need something far more heavy duty though.

    Seals should be easy ... Just head to the local 'seal' shop and buy some universals. Don't worry about pulling the calipers in half, there dead simple, you can't really screw it up (even if you try ).

    Are you telling me you didn't check the starter motor and clutch when you had it all in bits

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Now that the pistons have been pushed back in, thay will move freely. It's aswell that I bought new pads for the front, as they were toasted! Still, at least I don't have to take the column out, and that is a BIG relief!

    We didn't touch the engine at all! The clutch is on its way out, and I suppose it would have been much easier to do it while the front of the car was missing, but we didn't. As for the starter, it has never given even the slightest hint of trouble. It's always worked perfectly. Then, suddenly it didn't!
    The solenoid throws the gear into the ring gear, but the motor itself doesn't turn at all.
    john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    Now that the pistons have been pushed back in, thay will move freely. It's aswell that I bought new pads for the front, as they were toasted! Still, at least I don't have to take the column out, and that is a BIG relief!

    We didn't touch the engine at all! The clutch is on its way out, and I suppose it would have been much easier to do it while the front of the car was missing, but we didn't. As for the starter, it has never given even the slightest hint of trouble. It's always worked perfectly. Then, suddenly it didn't!
    The solenoid throws the gear into the ring gear, but the motor itself doesn't turn at all.
    john s
    Could be the main cable down to the starter. Is the battery terminal ok ??

    The soleniod is powered by a seperate feed, so if you have lost the main connection all you will get is the soleniod hitting home.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    It was getting late by the time we discovered this fault, so we had to pack up & go home.
    We will remove the starter at the weekend, and test it properly. To be honest, the heavy + cable isn't great, but it's been ok upto now.
    We'll find out soon enough. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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