How good are those XM's????
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    How good are those XM's????

    Noticed the cheap XM on the boards ($10,250)
    ono and wondered how good these beasts are??
    This car is a 91 model V6 has done 210,000kms
    midnight blue with black leather..cd player and auto..has log books..serviced by Euroserve(Ian Redex) and has had a new starter motor and susp struts 18 months ago....As I have heard a bit of negative stuff thought I would ask you guys!!!
    What are your thoughts?????
    Cheers
    Andrew

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  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Andrew,

    If you look around, I think on the Aussie Cit Classifieds, Green Blood & I spoke about this car.
    From what I hear from overseas, the downers are that the early ones were a mongrel of a thing with their electrics. They apparently had some strange earth set up which was trouble plus. They also had a suspect oil pump which was cured on later models and modified on "some" earlier ones. The appearance of 0-W weighted oils in synthetics I have heard attributed to XM's as some were known to have chewed lobes off cams due to oil starvation on start up. They are also "quad cam" and east west so would be an absolute pig to fit a cam belt to I would imagine.
    NOW, the positives: They go like the clappers, handle like a sports car - sorry; better than most. Are economical, roomy, and comfortable.
    A lot of UK and European owners rate them as the best cars they've owned yet over there they have almost no resale.
    Personally if I didn't have my BX 16V I would have had the car you are talking about in my garage days ago; If I win Lotto - I still will :p

    Alan S

    Over to you Green Blood
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Strut service is significant if Alan wins out and you look at any other car. Top mounts are known to give way, sending the strut up into the bonnet and the car to a kneel. A bad batch of electrical connectors are said to have caused some problems on very early models.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  4. #4
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Thanks Alan,
    Ok lets start by putting things in perspective, when Australia got it's first batch of XMs they had an asking price of $79,000.00 most of these cars were sold to buyers who were experimenting with Citroen, they would have come from the stables of BMW, Mercedes, Saab and the like. Most of the early groans from those new to the marque would be due to a lack of after sales service (not from the various agent/dealers but from Citroen itself) remember these folk were used to being lavished upon, "clean your shoes sir while we service the car sir".

    Now, the early cars did have their share of problems and as with all Citroens previous, most were related to shoddy electrics, but because the XM is so reliant on it's electrical gadgetry (the suspension now being monitored and controled by computers), it rightly earned a reputation for being unreliable. As Alan points out most of these problems can be traced to faulty earths, there are several points where these earths come together and on early cars they were just spade joins. On later cars these were replaced by full ring joints and gave a lot less trouble (groping for technical term). This problem was far worse in Europe becuase of the salt on roads in winter. You will find that as these vehicles have now been on the road for up to 12 years, most of these problems will have been fixed one way or another.

    All righty, now you can pick up a used XM for $10,000.00 some poor bastard paid $80,000 and spent a kings ransom getting these niggly problems sorted out, let me tell you you are buying one gem of a car for that kind of money, apart from the fact that it is every bit a Citroen, ride, handling, etc. and a very stylish looking car, you get a host of goodies climate air, cruise, powered seats, windows the list goes on.

    It is also a great concept car, great ergonomics, it is a hatch, so rear seats fold down flat to reveal a space you could sleep in. It has a very lively performance for a vehicle that capably doubles as a practical family sedan and a sport saloon.

    I would be happy to go on, (thats enough now Chris your boring the other members)

    I know of the car you refer to, but have not seen it, If you are interested and it is still for sale have a chat to Ian at Euroserve, he is very straight, tells it as it is. I wouldn't be put off by milage either after all it is a Citroen it's just run in (OK Chris give it a break)

    I'll shut up now
    Cheers
    Chris

    Do you get the idea that i'm pretty happy with mine oh yeah!
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    One of my friends bought one of the first batch of XMs (12 valve) new....

    Great drive (not "fast"), lots of rattles and sqeaks, he had no major electrical problems apart from the suspension deciding to hit "sport mode" randomly.

    The auto packed it in before the car saw it's first 10k.....he managed to get it replaced under warranty after much argument....

    I can't remember specifics but the auto in them was apparently the same as used in the Alfa 164s which enjoyed a similar reputation for their autos .......and resale....actually theirs is slightly better

    The later ones (24 valve) used a different gearbox (he owned one of them too)a much better car.

    Be careful with an XM....while you're only paying 10k for a 70+ car (new at least) you still pay 70+k or so car equivelent prices for parts etc to keep the thing on the road.

    The cars depreciate, the parts don't unfortunately

    just my 2 cents
    ________
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 02:31 AM.

  6. #6
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Dtwo,
    I like the sound of your friend, bought an XM new, had problems and went out and bought another one....they are that kind of car, sure the're not the fastest, that leather can be a bit squeaky (turn up the sound) but you just can't help forgive them. Anyone contemplating buying one needs their head read, they should have a certificate to show they are sane I have spent quite a bit of time reading posts on the yahoo XM forum, honestly those guys are nuts, great sense of humour (well you'd have to) It's a drug.

    The car that is for sale in Bris.. I told my wife about it, I want two of them XMs not wives As for the cost of parts, tell me a car where parts are cheeper now, than when it was manufactured? Yep they just keep going up.

    Seriously though, what you say is good advise, getting the car for $10,000 is one thing, keeping it maintained is another. Don't even think about it if you don't have some basic knowledge of Citroen Hydraulics, and are not prepared to do at least the basic work on it yourself, or know someone who does, and yes some parts are going to be very expensive compared to the equivalent parts on more popular (read common) breeds. As with any sizable purchase do your homework, and when the sums don't add up, if it's a Citroen let your heart rule your head.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Hi there, just letting you know that a XM is a rather reliable Citroen. I owned an FSO (Polish Fiat) once, and _that_ was a bad bad car. I still shiver when i see one... After that i switched back to Citroen, a BX14 oh what a relieve it was. Since than we had another BX, a 16TRI, and we're driving the XM now for 18 months, and getting more and more happy with it... (although it's a little big for the cramped parkingplaces inthe old Dutch town we live). So, if you can afford the price of those big tyres and you're not put off by an empty 85 litre fuel tank... go for it! As for the other parts, every car has an exhaust, batterie and oilfilter that needs to be replaced every now and than.. My Cit-mechanic told me my XM2.0i (the simplest) is just like a big BX to maintain. And it is...

    Paul

  8. #8
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Paul,
    Great to hear from you, it's good to see that the opinion you have of your car is improving the longer you own it, especially after the work you have had to do on the head recently, Citroens are for the most part rewarding, and whilst you may curse them when things go wrong, all is forgiven once you get them back on the road again. Unfortunatly we only got the V6 auto here in Australia and their reputation is a long way behind the CX and BX they replaced in terms of reliabilty.

    Good to see you are checking Aussiefrogs from time to time.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Oz has my warm interest, my brother lives in Sydney since a couple of years, he's a busdriver. He (mis) used an old BX14 two years ago whilst visiting europe for three months with his wife, showing her all the places he'd been whilst travelling (before settling down in Oz)At the end of the trip they left the BX at a breakers....
    btw, i'm a regular poster on XM-L the Yahoo mailinglist for international XM owners... i'm XM20i there...

    c ya, Paul

  10. #10
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Paul,
    noticed new member Marcel, hasn't posted yet but, bus driver in Sydney, cars owned 2cv and BX gotta be your brother yeah?

    G'day Marcel welcome to the site.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Just like to say I have 1992 XM 3.0 V6 SEi.
    Owned it for 2 years now. Cost me £205 to cure an electrical fault just after I got it, but what a car. No trouble now. A lot of car for a little money!

    Regards


    Andy

  12. #12
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Andy,

    Welcome to the site.

    Just to put you in the picture a '91/92 V6 in Australia will set you back about $18 to $20 grand say about 7000UK pounds so anyone here is making a fairly serious decision relative to what you may pay for an equivelent vehicle in the UK. Likewise parts are expensive, not that I have had to buy but, for instance bottom radiator hose about $450.00 Aus dollars 150UK pounds

    Mine was a one owner vehicle when I bought it and has the best service record I have seen on any used car I've owned, so after six months of ownership no problems, but you can see why we are a bit conservative in our willingness to take on ownership.

    They are a great car but having said that I gave my D model a bit of a run over the last week and reminded myself of how bloody good they are If I know I have a lot of town driving, stop start get in and out the XM is the go but if I know I'm going to be moving around at a leisurely pace still can't beat the old D.

    I guess I'v got the best of both worlds

    Not to many XM drivers on this board so good to hear from you.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Here ya go Chris and fellow XMphiles!!!
    Go have a great big droooooooooll. This guys prices X 3 to = Aussie Dollars don't make ours look all that bad.
    http://www.xm-centre.com/

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Alan,

    if you have a closer look most of the are turbo diesels. Even CX turbo diesel (espicialy if there wagons) are sought after. They appear to always bring MUCH more money than the equivelant petrol car.

    I had a guy visit me last year from the UK, he said if I ever wanted a half decent XM just send him over 50quid and he'll find one........

    seeya,
    Shane L
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Hang on a minute - are we both looking at the same ad?
    By my count 9 diesels and 16 petrol hardly puts petrols in the minority in this instance :p

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  16. #16
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Alan,

    From what I have gleaned The XM Centre is regarded as being a bit on the high side of typical values in the UK. Their cars are probably well prepared for resale and no doubt carry a healthy warranty, check out this link http://www.autotrader.co.uk/ several cars for around the equivelent of $1800 -$2400 Aus dollars. I believe private sales would pick up a 91-94 V6 24 valve for less

    Shane I'll have a couple at 50 quid....

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  17. #17
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    OK Alan be picky :p

    I'd only read the 1st few & thought 'turbo diesels!'.

    Chris, those XM's need to be 15years old before they can be imported So you can't have any so there :p

    You also can't have any BXgti 4wd's, BX16 valves CXturbos (unless you can find a rott free pre 85model!).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  18. #18
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Awww Geez Shane,
    You are such a kill joy......... I would have had one each of those on my xmas wish list hmmm maybe two of the CX turbos and a partridge in a pear tree....

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  19. #19
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    You guys are a bit slow you know.
    All that happens with anyone from Europe or UK bringing a car out here, they just look up guys who advertise (or at least used to) in some of the trading Post publications and buy a "compliance plate" which is about as legal as a speedo "correction" and simply hammer a date in to suit the occasion.
    How do I know?? Coz I once lent my number punches to a Frenchman who said "wee! wee! wot zay don't know, won't hurt zem!! Are zey going to question a frenchman on ze age of za carrr - noh!! I don't sink so" and you know something? he was right; because I stood there whilst a customs bod said to this guy "Is that date right on that compliance plate?" (may be because the numbers were a bit scew whiff) to which he replied "can'y you read ze plate? course it's right! how could it not be so" which was met with a "fair enough"
    Some mother do have 'em.
    So if you want a 50 buck XM, I'll drop you my number punches down and you organize a "plate"

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  20. #20
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Alan,
    Your French is Impeccable (A bit like Pepe le Pew "on the nose" :p)

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Alan,

    I think you'll find that you CANT import a car full stop without the ability to compliance it. That's what I've heard. I don't know how Jap importers do it??

    If I was to import say a CX2500 gti turbo & register it as a CX22004spd pallas (a wreck ) that'd be alright. The problem is to bring the car in as 'spare parts' I think you literly have to cut it in half & ship it in two different containers. To bring it in as a whole car you can't get it off the docks.... Maybe if I just head to NSW I'd be able to get one in??

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  22. #22
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    I don't think PaulE would mind me posting this.


    It wasn't too much of a hassle importing the XM, as we'd owned it in the UK
    for over 12 months, although funnily enough that in itself caused a hiccup
    with a "little tin god" at the Customs Dept.
    On their website, there's a link to the Dept of Transport in Canberra,
    detailing the requirements to privately import a car. They state that you
    must have owned and used the car overseas and be able to supply proof, ie
    petrol receipts, service history, rego & insurance etc. to show that you have
    actually been using the car for 12 months.
    Did all that.
    Brought the car in to Brisbane.
    This Customs "official" tells me that because I've had the car for 12 months,
    that in his opinion I had no intention of importing it when I bought it, so
    they want to charge me full import duty on the value of the car here in Oz,
    rather than the purchase price in the UK!!!.
    Pratt.
    I fought them for two weeks and eventually won. Paid duty on the purchase
    price (cheap) as it should have been all along.
    LOTS of red tape & bureaucratic rubbish to go through, but worth it!
    The XM's a lovely car. Typical Citroen with a few quirks, but it has
    "character".
    168,000 MILES and it doesn't burn any oil. The Yahoo site is very handy for
    info. Far too many emails though.
    I'll visit aussiefrogs.com and have a look.
    Bye for now,
    PaulE

    Same old story if you buy the car with the intention of importing and not only own but use the car for twelve months you can do it but it would seem not without hassles

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  23. #23
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Unless things have gone haywire in the past couple of years I think it is a case of having the hide to just bluff these "tin god" types.
    Ze gent I am refering to had 32 cars sitting in his garage at last count, had receipts for them all in the same handwriting on everything from toilet paper to pie packets and never and I mean NEVER paid one cent of duty on any of them.
    The best bit was he was French, all the supposed owners he had bought them from were in Europe and they were all RH drive and nobody has twigged that to this day
    He drove a 2CV with European motor bike registration and had the third party organized through a mob in South Australia.
    It is the same old story; if you try to do the right thing they'll make your life a misery. This character used to carry on like such an @$$#o!e that I saw a wharfie literally try to run him down with a forklift. They couldn't get him out of there quick enough.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  24. #24
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Hey Shane,
    I was thinking about what you said re: cutting a car up and bringing it over in pieces, totally impractical I know, but how easy would it be with a D. Unbolt the gaurds doors etc. but you know it is the one exception to the rule. You would get more money going the other way, good rust free Ds are worth a mint in the UK you could make enough out of the sale to buy your dream car stay for twelve months and bring it back legally :p

    yeah I know "tell im eez dreamin"

    Alan, with 2cvs you'd hardly be able to tell the difference between a 10 year old and a 30 year old car so not difficult to fool customs, not quite the same with an XM but lets give your froggy mate a go

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  25. #25
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    And what about the RH drive vs LH drive bit?
    Tell the Customs guy to stand at the front and tell him that from there the steering wheel is on the left hand side??

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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