Citroen BX ignition?
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Citroen BX ignition?

    Has anyone got an ignition barrel and key for sale to suit a 1989 Citroen BX TRI?

    Alternatively, is anyone interested in buying the said car sans a working ignition?

    Andrew

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  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Andrew,

    I've answered this one on several occasions both here and overseas.
    Your chances of finding an ignition barrel second hand is fairly remote and is also expensive (about $80 being the going rate last time I heard) but the fault is only a minor one.
    Usually it's the lug inside the actual rear part of the barrel that snaps off often due to being forced too hard particularly if the car is getting a bit long in the tooth and the wiring to the solenoid is getting degraded. If that's all it is, just the actual starter section, and it still turns on the ignition and still locks and unlocks the steering, then it shouldn't cost much at all to fix by simply isolating the starter from the ignition switch.
    There's a couple of ways of doing it; either run a fresh wire from the battery + terminal into the cab and stick it up the steering column surround (cover plate) and in the casing of the cover, fit a push button switch ($1.95 @ Dick Smith/Tandy) from the switch, preferrably via a relay, to the solenoid wire on the starter.
    To start the car, then it's just a case of turn the switch to the "on" position and hit the button; same result for a fraction of the cost.
    For the record, I think you'll find there's at least 3 ignition switches for BX and none of which I believe are interchangeable. Big advantage of this system is that it usually delivers a better charge of power to the solenoid and if it stuffs up in the future, it will cost another $1.95 and about 15 minutes to replace it.
    If you don't feel confident in doing this bit of a job yourself just take it to an auto electrician and any worth his salt should do it easily in half hour.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Icon5 switch type

    Andrew does your switch look like this
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Citroen BX ignition?-dcp02079small.jpg   Citroen BX ignition?-dcp02080small.jpg  
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    This is the trap; they all look the same.
    Count the wires and look at the plugs as well as looking at the way they fit into the mounting.
    You could be lucky, but when I had this problem, I got three before I got the right one.

    Alan S
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    UFO
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    Remember too that the other prob with all modern lock barrels is that the insides are made of plastic and they will eventualy fail if you always have a bundle of keys swinging off them.

    After having the barrel on my BX fail many years ago, I took the advice of the locksmith and got a key ring that separates. (I had to get the barrel destroyes to get it out, as the key was jammed in and ON and the only way to remove the barrel is to be able to turn the key to the point where you can push in the security pin). The only keys that are on that half of the key ring are those that are for cars.

    As a guide, get your bunch of keys and weigh them. Some weigh more than a kilo. Now imagine that weight swinging and bouncing around and the insides of the ignition barrel taking that force. See my point?

    A work colleagues <2 year old Boobaru Fartester had to be flat bedded to the nearest dealer recently as his wife after being continually reminded kept on having a huge bunch of keys on the key ring. Fortunately Boobaru did the job as a warranty. But not without them being without their second car for a weekend.
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    twm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew
    Has anyone got an ignition barrel and key for sale to suit a 1989 Citroen BX TRI?

    Alternatively, is anyone interested in buying the said car sans a working ignition?

    Andrew
    Andrew
    Where abouts In syd are you?

    Terry


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    Fellow Frogger! ajpolden's Avatar
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    Hi
    Alan are they really all that similiar?
    For what it's worth, there is one from a diesel model (unspecified which) going cheap on ebay in germany at the moment, complete with door locks etc.:
    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4567082591&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
    Payment might be a problem, provided you get it cheap, a western union transfer should do, and considering exchange rates at the moment, may be a fairly cheap option IF you think it may be suitable.
    All the best,
    Andrew.

    p.s. Just my opinion on key masses attached to ignition locks - I think it is a pain with a large keyring banging away, and after having seen that sort of thing happening to other locks on japanese cars, i always keep my car keys separate, and AFAIK all the previous owners have too. Result? A very smoothly functioning lock after almost 20 years and 300 000kms.
    Current:
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    Previous:
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajpolden
    Hi
    Alan are they really all that similiar?

    All the best,
    Andrew.
    Yep, they certainly are. Before I did the push button switch mod, I decided to go the hard way mainly because I only had the car for a day when this same thing happened to mine.
    The previous owner did the right thing and agreed to supply the part if I did the labour and he was a Cit specialist, so got one locally and posted it up to me (400 klms away). I pulled the old switch out when it arrived - (that's an 'interesting' job in itself; keep the Super Glue handy) and eventually got it out and the new switch almost in when we noticed the difference. Phoned him, pulled it out and returned it to him. Next switch arrived, looked similar, started to fit, found it wouldn't, contacted again and suggested possibly making one out of two by stripping and just using the small part that busted. He declined that in case the innards were like the outsides; slightly different. I send the old switch back with the other, he agrees, neither one supplied would fit, so send the old switch off to Martin Bray in SA who matches it up eventually.
    Car off the road about 5 weeks from memory.
    The switch mod I suggested could be done after tea and you'd still not be late to see the ABC news and if you use a relay, costs <$20 and about $2 if you don't.
    I doubt a diesel one would fit because you'd think they'd need to make special arrangements on them due to the glow plugs.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by twm
    Andrew
    Where abouts In syd are you?

    Terry
    I'm in Woolloomooloo but the car is sitting on a friend's farm outside Goulburn which is where it was when the lock failed a few weeks ago. The problem is that the key will not go into the ignition which means, of course, that I cannot turn the key to the special position to enable me to push the button down and pop the barrel out (as per Haynes manual). I have not had any problems with electrical connections and there was no suggestion the lock was wearing out (nor do I carry a bunch of heavy keys) . Something just jammed in the barrel when I went to start the car and drive it back to Sydney. I will drive down next week and have a look at it and see if I can work out a way of getting the barrel out without the need to put a key into it. I expect that I will need to take a grinder and a drill.

    Given that the problem seems to relate only to the lock itself and not the electrical connections, I have considered getting a locksmith to come out and have a look at it but the car is in a fairly remote part of the woods. Taking the car to a locksmith or back to Sydney might also be a pain as the steering lock is on and the wheels were turned which will make it hard to get it onto a car trailer to enable me to take it anywhere.

    Does anyone have any strong feelings (for or against) on driving a drill bit straight down the lock? - I would like to avoid using a grinder (the car has quite good interior trim).

  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The tumblers have seized.
    Just buy a can of silicone release spray, spray spme onto where tthe key fits as well as on the key and gently work ot into the slot until it releases.
    Then spray some powdered graphite into the slot and on the key and you'll live happily ever after.
    Common problem with locks of all kinds and living on acreage with locks on gates and stuff we get it all the time.
    Should be easy to fix and cost almost bugger all.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    The tumblers have seized.
    Just buy a can of silicone release spray, spray spme onto where tthe key fits as well as on the key and gently work ot into the slot until it releases.
    Then spray some powdered graphite into the slot and on the key and you'll live happily ever after.
    Common problem with locks of all kinds and living on acreage with locks on gates and stuff we get it all the time.
    Should be easy to fix and cost almost bugger all.

    Alan S
    Thanks for the advice Alan. I'll swap my tools of destruction (drill, grinder, gas axe) for tools of persuasion (silicone spray, graphite) and report back in a week or so.

  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Just be sure you use the sillicone spray and definitely not WD40 or RP7. If they are really seized hard, try (literally) a drop of Penetrine. The reason for this is that if too much is put in or WD/RP used, it can creep back into the electricals at the rear of the switch and create electrical problems which is the reason for using the silicone as it can lubricate without creeping or attracting dust.
    I doubt that you'll have too much trouble freeing it up unless it's frozen solid which is highly unlikely.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew
    Thanks for the advice Alan. I'll swap my tools of destruction (drill, grinder, gas axe) for tools of persuasion (silicone spray, graphite) and report back in a week or so.
    I would still take a centre punch and large hammer if I were you. If you have to destroy the lock to remove it you can still then use a screwdriver or even hex bit (iirc) to turn the electrical stuff that is left behind in the barrel. You do have to remember to turn it back from start as the return spring function resides in the lock assembly.
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    I would still take a centre punch and large hammer if I were you. If you have to destroy the lock to remove it you can still then use a screwdriver or even hex bit (iirc) to turn the electrical stuff that is left behind in the barrel. You do have to remember to turn it back from start as the return spring function resides in the lock assembly.
    Oh yea of little faith......................and a bloody butcher too!!


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  15. #15
    ash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Oh yea of little faith......................and a bloody butcher too!!


    Alan S
    Says he with the 12" shifter in hand...

    Alan, I'd be interested to know more about your push-button mod - was this on the 16v? (Let me know if there's a thread somewhere - I'm too lazy to check... ) One of my old housemates had a Honda S2000, and I was always jealous of his push-button start (although a bit worried about the security implications, especially in a ragtop...)
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    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Icon5 Do I Put My Lock Back On The Shelf

    Do want this lock to try $5 postage each way if it doesn't work?
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    Says he with the 12" shifter in hand...

    Alan, I'd be interested to know more about your push-button mod - was this on the 16v? (Let me know if there's a thread somewhere - I'm too lazy to check... ) One of my old housemates had a Honda S2000, and I was always jealous of his push-button start (although a bit worried about the security implications, especially in a ragtop...)
    Yep, it was done as a "stitch in time" type of mod as most 16Vs seem to eventually suffer from this lazy starter sundrome. It also comes in handy when doing compression tests or anything requiring the engine to be spun over without necessarily having the ignition on.
    It's extremely simple and basic; just get a wire from the starter solenoid into the cab. Another from the battery or a 12V+ power supply and the push button is a straight out make and break. A relay then wired into this circuit guarantees a good powerful jolt of power to the solenoid to snap it into mesh, power to drive the actual motor is supplied by the big fat lead from the battery and because this is a full 12Volts coming directly to it and by passing the ignition switch, it is less likely to damage the contacts in the solenoid due to voltage drop so should mean that the starter and solenoid last longer and the car starts faster. There's been a few postings on this maybe even the write up on the Common Fixes forum could have a bit more info.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  18. #18
    twm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew
    I'm in Woolloomooloo but the car is sitting on a friend's farm outside Goulburn which is where it was when the lock failed a few weeks ago. The problem is that the key will not go into the ignition which means, of course, that I cannot turn the key to the special position to enable me to push the button down and pop the barrel out (as per Haynes manual). I have not had any problems with electrical connections and there was no suggestion the lock was wearing out (nor do I carry a bunch of heavy keys) . Something just jammed in the barrel when I went to start the car and drive it back to Sydney. I will drive down next week and have a look at it and see if I can work out a way of getting the barrel out without the need to put a key into it. I expect that I will need to take a grinder and a drill.

    Given that the problem seems to relate only to the lock itself and not the electrical connections, I have considered getting a locksmith to come out and have a look at it but the car is in a fairly remote part of the woods. Taking the car to a locksmith or back to Sydney might also be a pain as the steering lock is on and the wheels were turned which will make it hard to get it onto a car trailer to enable me to take it anywhere.

    Does anyone have any strong feelings (for or against) on driving a drill bit straight down the lock? - I would like to avoid using a grinder (the car has quite good interior trim).
    Does sound like the tumblers are stuck to me too

    PM me if you get stuck, you might be able to convince me to take the rr down with a trailer, if needed.


    Terry
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  19. #19
    Member ozziediver's Avatar
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    The ignition switch on my TZD went a year or so ago and I picked up one from Continental in Sydney - they said the same switch for a petrol would work...and it did. After that I ordered a kit with door locks as well from GSF and have it here as a spare in case the 16V decides to act up. The tumblers weren't froze, just the electrical contacts.
    I still have the old ignition lock...but need the keys as they are needed to open the doors.
    Cheers,
    Roscoe
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  20. #20
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I had this happen to an AX GT I once owned. I went to the pub, and by the time I came back out, the key no longer fitted the ignition switch. I left the car there and returned the following day with a very big screw driver, and a hammer. I was advised by my local citroen dealer that the tumblers collapse, and you need to destroy the lock completely to get it out. They even told me how to hotwire the car! ( I did take proof of ownwership with me )
    You often find that ignition switches are modified as time goes on, and it may be that the ones you get now are for more than 1 car. This was the case with me, the new one had too many connectors. However, the dealer told me which one to cut off. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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