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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Default pump for BX TRi

    hey guys i found a BX19TRi auto today (so Shane and Daniel it would be perfect for you 2 to share )

    anyway a young lass owns it and loves it but at the moment it is stuck out the back of a f$%d dealership wanting a new hyd pump as the one in it apparently is dead

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    so the next question is has anyone got a spare they want to part with and how much as the bloke told me the girl (P plater as well) misses her car with the bright pink steering wheel cover (again perfect for Shane)

    the bloke said it was a 5 piston pump so i assume this is correct ?
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Highly unlikely the pump is dead, they just get slower ... and slower ... and slower over the decades (or leak).

    If you prime it for them it'll no doubt be away (or possibly just tighten the bleed screw).

    If you want instructions on how to prime the pump I'll take a couple of piccies on the weekend and demonstrate on the BX here.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    UFO
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    I agree with Shane (at least on this one). The 12mm nut on the pressure reg (on a BX Tri it is near the lower left side of the radiator) may be loose and/or the pump needs priming (pour some LHM down it's guts via the pickup pipe and then reattach the pipe to the tank top - hang on I'm telling a hydraulics engineery person how to prime a pump )

    It may also be worth checking the height correction lever is in the normal position (aligned with the fat white mark on the scale).

    Also, never fully remove the 12mm nut/bolt from the regulator as the spring and ball will attempt to catch up with the space shuttle and then you'll spend the next four hours trying to find them.

    As a last thought, is there enough LHM in the tank? (again, me telling engineery person how to suck eggs )

    Ah, time for more beer.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Highly unlikely the pump is dead, they just get slower ... and slower ... and slower over the decades (or leak).

    If you prime it for them it'll no doubt be away (or possibly just tighten the bleed screw).

    If you want instructions on how to prime the pump I'll take a couple of piccies on the weekend and demonstrate on the BX here.

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    that'd be good Shane

    i don't know the full story of the car all i got was a quick phone call from them after i left there after a delivery as the bloke i spoke to passed my number onto the service bloke

    they know i'm a french car nut you see as they are a volvo dealership as well

    i'll find out more from the bloke as to the symptoms of the pump but all i got from him was the pump was dead and the car has been sitting there for a little while now
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    I agree with Shane (at least on this one). The 12mm nut on the pressure reg (on a BX Tri it is near the lower left side of the radiator) may be loose and/or the pump needs priming (pour some LHM down it's guts via the pickup pipe and then reattach the pipe to the tank top - hang on I'm telling a hydraulics engineery person how to prime a pump )

    It may also be worth checking the height correction lever is in the normal position (aligned with the fat white mark on the scale).

    Also, never fully remove the 12mm nut/bolt from the regulator as the spring and ball will attempt to catch up with the space shuttle and then you'll spend the next four hours trying to find them.

    As a last thought, is there enough LHM in the tank? (again, me telling engineery person how to suck eggs )

    Ah, time for more beer.
    ah yes i have amber liquid in front of me know

    i haven't even seen the front of the car but if i have time if i am over that way again tomorrow i'll sus it out a bit more

    if i get time i was going to check the normal hydro bits such as fluid level and condition and see if i could prime the pump back into operation and also check to see if there were any major leaks anywhere

    the car from what i have seen of it looks pretty clean and straight though but i have no idea on who would have been servicing it if it has been a local car up there

    fairly rare sight in dubbo is a BX

    also i think there is a white BX floating around here as well
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    ah yes i have amber liquid in front of me know

    i haven't even seen the front of the car but if i have time if i am over that way again tomorrow i'll sus it out a bit more

    if i get time i was going to check the normal hydro bits such as fluid level and condition and see if i could prime the pump back into operation and also check to see if there were any major leaks anywhere

    the car from what i have seen of it looks pretty clean and straight though but i have no idea on who would have been servicing it if it has been a local car up there

    fairly rare sight in dubbo is a BX

    also i think there is a white BX floating around here as well
    Let me know if you need LHM as my brother keeps a small stock of it in Dubbo on behalf of the club. A couple of litres may be available.

    BTW - if you are lucky you can reach down the side of the radiator (right side facing car) and you should be able to access the 12mm bolt. IIRC you have good arms for Citroen work.

    I think I have seen the white BX. There are a few other Cits up there as well.

    Mind you, next Easter there should be well over 100 in town
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Indeed, and I hope to be there to see them!!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    twm
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    hey guys i found a BX19TRi auto today (so Shane and Daniel it would be perfect for you 2 to share )

    anyway a young lass owns it and loves it but at the moment it is stuck out the back of a f$%d dealership wanting a new hyd pump as the one in it apparently is dead

    so the next question is has anyone got a spare they want to part with and how much as the bloke told me the girl (P plater as well) misses her car with the bright pink steering wheel cover (again perfect for Shane)

    the bloke said it was a 5 piston pump so i assume this is correct ?
    I got a second hand pump from Martin Bray, it was ~$100, if you get stuck you could borrow my spare for testing, will cost you a beer next time I am in town

    It is out of a 16trs so not sure if it is the same maybe someone can tell us.


    Terry
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    ok i had a closer inspection of the car today

    tell ya what it looks in good nic but anyway

    the pump doesn't have any tell tale signs around it that it/was leaking and on start up the pump sounds fine

    the tank is empty and behind the car is a line of oil which stops under the car about where the sump is

    i only had the car running for around a minute and switched her off as there wasn't any oil in the tank so i didn't want to do it any harm

    so underneath or near the sump/cross member are there any unions ?

    my guess is it has blown a hose there or a union/join has blown out

    do you guys reckon i am close ?

    i couldn't get under the car to see so i am only guessing at this point

    i take it the green block behine the radiator is the valving for the pump as it looks like the height adjustment from the cab goes into it, is this correct

    without looking at a schematic for the car i can only guess by what the various hydro parts look like from my experience and this is the first time i have ever closely examined a BX
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yep,

    you have it in one. the only way to tell is to add some LHM and see where it pours out from .... Sounds like a High pressure leak to have dumped so much so quickly (either that or the return from the regulator is gone).

    Do NOT let them replace the pump for no reason !!!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Yep,

    you have it in one. the only way to tell is to add some LHM and see where it pours out from .... Sounds like a High pressure leak to have dumped so much so quickly (either that or the return from the regulator is gone).

    Do NOT let them replace the pump for no reason !!!

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    the bloke at the dealership is a personal friend of the girls father and is going to pass my number onto him

    the dealer wants me to do the work on the car for him

    the only thing is the car is 120km's from here and that doesn't worry me too much but finding the time does

    if i could get the car here it would be a breeze as i could do it at night in the garage so if anyone knows someone who wants to do the job let me know as i can pass it onto them if they like

    seems like a simple fix and there is monetary compensation for any work carried out

    it took me longer to find the bonnet release than it did to find that the pump was ok

    BTW when i looked at the height lever it was in the furthest back position so i put it in the centre spot

    cleanest BX i have ever seen though and it was sold 2nd hand through this dealer for not a lot of money apparently
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like it has either done a line on the octopus or one of the small returns that runs from one strut to the other has popped off.
    This can at times be a bit sinister because if there's an internal problem in a strut, it can cause a pressure build up that can blow it off, but I'd be more inclined to think it is possibly just a bit rotten and can be reconnected and held with a small zip tie.
    My bet is a return line at the octopus.

    Here's a couple of sites that might be of help.

    http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/Hydraulics/

    http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~ynar/bxor.../m15/m15e.html

    If you get stuck on it, I can PM you my mobile or home number and you can give me a holler when you're at the job as I'm usually always available one way or the other.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Good point,

    if you get stuck, grab Alans number (possibly me as well if it's the weekend) and I'll chuck the BX up on the ramps and you can describe exactly what the problem is while the same car is being looked at this end .....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    twm
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Good point,

    if you get stuck, grab Alans number (possibly me as well if it's the weekend) and I'll chuck the BX up on the ramps and you can describe exactly what the problem is while the same car is being looked at this end .....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    You probably have them already but I Have some PDfs of the manual if thats on any help


    Terry
    Kurrajong

    Pug 206 CC 2litre

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    this is excellent guys

    ok assuming it's the octopus which seems to be the common line of thought, how are the hoses conected to the union if there is on ?

    are they an olive type connection ?
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    oh one other thing i did notice was a pool of fluid in front of the tank behind the headlight

    is this of concern or would it be from spillage when someone has filled the tank and missed it seeing as the cap for the tank seems to be nearly under the inner guard

    the fluid that was still in the tank which was very little was an olive green colour as well
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  17. #17
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    OK,

    An octopus is called an octopus because there's 8 pipes all stemming from a big mother of a rubber block that they're all vulcanised into.
    Often they will bust at other points apart from the actual common joint, but when they do, it's a case of jamming a bit of plastic or metal tube into the hole in the octopus that's left where the busted pipe came from.
    To fit an octopus, you need to support the engine on an engine hoist, remove the top mount (5 nuts) and the lower (one bolt) and with the car up on ramps, attach the new pipes to the old ones one by one and pull them through and connect at the tank. Sometimes you need to remove a driveshaft for accessibility, although if the car was up on a proper hoist possibly you'll wangle your way around it.
    Use new jubillee clips wherever they are as the originals are the use once and discard types that tend to leak with a bit of age, suck air and create more peoblems than they're worth.
    Puddle of fluid behind LHM tank usually = someone with the DTs trying to fill or trying in bad light.
    Colour of LHM FWIW is found here.

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/snippets/lhm_story.htm


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    ok so the colour in the said car isn't too bad then

    i have no idea on how many km's it has done and in hindsight i should have checked but seeing as i was only looking for it's problem and not looking at buying i didn't think to look at the mileage

    so if jacking the car up (sounds like fun) and checking the lines and putting this 'sleeve' in it should be ok ??

    the circuit all looks pretty simple in these things

    must get myself a CX to play with, at least they have a bonnet made of something stronger than plastic
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  19. #19
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Don't laugh at the plastic bonnet when it comes to strength and durability. I was sitting in the passengers seat in my sons TZi when a big evil looking mong wandered out in front of him one night on a dark road as he was doing 110kph. It was one real big hound; a Ridgeback/Rotty cross and I was looking straight at his big boof head as he was higher than the bonnet. He hit him so bloody hard I reckon it was as he fell back to Earth that he collided with the Space Shuttle and did the damage to the tiles and stuff; geez did he hit him hard.
    He took out the headlight and parker as well as splitting the bumper in several spots. The mounting for the head and park lights were bent every which way, but it didn't even bruise the bonnet. You'd have to see it to appreciate it.
    For my money, I'll take the plastic bonnet any day of the week. I might not say that if I ever have to paint one though.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  20. #20
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    how many BX's have broken the flimsy bonnet release that you pull to lift it after you have popped it ?

    i thought the 405 ones were flimsy till i saw the one on the BX
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    how many BX's have broken the flimsy bonnet release that you pull to lift it after you have popped it ?

    i thought the 405 ones were flimsy till i saw the one on the BX
    I've never seen a broken one ... The plastic bonnet.... My sister in law wandered up our drive and tried to climb the gate when she was p!$$ed one night ... (why didn't she just open it ). She fell so heavily back onto the bonnet of the BX that the alarm tripped (I've NEVER heard the alarm trip in that car trip before or since). She would have oblite rated the aluminium DS bonnet that was parked beside the BX.

    Damage ... She bounced off unheart ... The bonnet was unmarked. Bloody lucky it was the BX and no other car parked there

    BTW: Alan I was poking around under the bonnet of a 16valve tonight .... I don't get it ..... How the bloody hell is that motor so much wider when the bloody thing only has a 16valve head. What a sh!t of a car to access or work on, gimme a CX turbo anyday (the only thing more difficult to access on that is the starter, even it slips out past the turbo and manifolds without a problem once you remove the bolts). The cars owner had just changed the clutch cable. He assures me it is NOT a pleasurable experiance. I can't see how the hell he even got to the cable without removing the motor (or at least titling it forward).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i got a shock when i lifted it

    once i found the bonnet release in the car and pulled it i was waiting for a pop from the bonnet as they normally do but this didn't make a sound, the only way i knew i got it right was when i saw it sitting up a little

    i then lifted it a little to see the plastic pully thing that was no bigger than a cable tie and pulled it and lifted the bonnet up to have it nearly launch up in the air and i thought bloody hell these are light till i looked at it to find it was plastic
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    i got a shock when i lifted it

    once i found the bonnet release in the car and pulled it i was waiting for a pop from the bonnet as they normally do but this didn't make a sound, the only way i knew i got it right was when i saw it sitting up a little

    i then lifted it a little to see the plastic pully thing that was no bigger than a cable tie and pulled it and lifted the bonnet up to have it nearly launch up in the air and i thought bloody hell these are light till i looked at it to find it was plastic
    Bonnet == plastic
    hatchback == plastic
    plastic == very strong == light weight.

    The quality of the exterior plastic on a BX is extremelly good. The interior is trash ... garbage ... crapola

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Bonnet == plastic
    hatchback == plastic
    plastic == very strong == light weight.

    The quality of the exterior plastic on a BX is extremelly good. The interior is trash ... garbage ... crapola

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    the interior in this one looked quite good

    i couldn't see any cracks or anything falling apart along the dash/console or the door trims

    the only thing that didn't impress me with the interior was the god awful beige/light brown colour of it

    looked like a cheap jap car from the colour of it, maybe i am just to used to the darker 405/306/206 interiors
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  25. #25
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Actually, the interiors of them are extremely robust if you're talking about the seats and door trims; it's the brittle non UV resistent plastic that lets them down.
    I've often said I can't believe anyone could make a car with so much external plastic that seems to last forever, who could then fit the interior up with crap that wouldn't even be acceptable for a kids toy.
    Access is really typical Citroen and is no worse in fact better than most CX once you learn the tricks to finding it. Through the inner guards and from underneath are fairly common and the old story of "no shortcuts, coz there ain't none" is the best motto to follow.
    The engine crane often becomes your best friend (to swing that big lump of metal out of the road.)
    Clutch cables; yes, they can be fun and yes they take the best part of a day to do. Again, I removed the front seat to get a bit of decent access. (I think if I remember correctly, someone wanted to try to tell me they could be done in 2 hours when I suggested closer to 5 about 12 months ago)
    Release handle, again, unheard of for one to break off. I even have a Trs in my backyard that has spent most of its life in the sun and the handle is still OK. Again, some of the better plastics used.
    As a point of interest; we have 2 BX16Vs at our place that have been underbonnet fire cars and in one case the fire got back into the cabin, yet neither cars bonnet sustained damage even though there's been some pretty serious burning going on directy below the bonnet; amazing!!



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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