My Xsara now uses regular ULP
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  1. #1
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    Default My Xsara now uses regular ULP

    Shell has announced here in VIC that their regular ULP is now 95RON. Once I used their ULP (91RON) and my engine management light came on. Never did it again and stuck to Optimax. I've now tried the reg. ULP, everything seems fine and my wallet is smiling. 12cents per li savings is nothing to sneeze at.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan M.
    Shell has announced here in VIC that their regular ULP is now 95RON. Once I used their ULP (91RON) and my engine management light came on. Never did it again and stuck to Optimax. I've now tried the reg. ULP, everything seems fine and my wallet is smiling. 12cents per li savings is nothing to sneeze at.
    Where is the announcement.... That sounds most unlike a fuel company. After all what are they going to do with there PULP bowsers now (PULP being different to Optimax).

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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    That sounds most unlike a fuel company. After all what are they going to do with there PULP bowsers now (PULP being different to Optimax).
    Interesting concept I have not heard anything in relation to this....

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Alan thanks for that. This is good news. Will save us all money....

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    Alan thanks for that. This is good news. Will save us all money....
    How will it save money

    All it means is they will have another grade of petrol. I imagine this will be 6cents a litre more than ULP, and optimax will be 10cents a litre more than ULP (or possibly they may make them both even more expensive as compared to standard ULP).

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    Are you sure that's the case?

    Recently (within the past month) Shell LRP has been replaced by 95RON ULP. Regular ULP (91 RON) still remaing, while the 95 RON is 6c more/L and Optimax remains at 10-12c more/L.

    I'm happy to pay the little extra for Optimax knowing it'll keep my Xsara happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    How will it save money

    All it means is they will have another grade of petrol. I imagine this will be 6cents a litre more than ULP, and optimax will be 10cents a litre more than ULP (or possibly they may make them both even more expensive as compared to standard ULP).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Not according to Shell, although at present with the latest rip off increase (what's the excuse this time? All the polar bears in China are striking until they get oil heaters in their cages or something equally as plausible) they can tack it in the price and never return to the previous figure.
    But, I filled with Shell ULP in the Xantia and for the first time ever, it is now pinging (or pinking depending on your nationality) just as I let the clutch out after a gear change, so you've gotta wonder.


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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Not according to Shell, although at present with the latest rip off increase (what's the excuse this time? All the polar bears in China are striking until they get oil heaters in their cages or something equally as plausible) they can tack it in the price and never return to the previous figure.
    But, I filled with Shell ULP in the Xantia and for the first time ever, it is now pinging (or pinking depending on your nationality) just as I let the clutch out after a gear change, so you've gotta wonder.


    Alan S
    Maybe you got a dodgy batch... I've run our Xantia on standard shell ULP from day one and haven't experianced pinging (maybe I just haven't heard it though They do have good sound insulation).

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I think the 95 ULP is their response to stopping the sale of LRP. At least that the way I saw it last week when I saw it for the first time - the LRP pumps had become 95 ULP pumps

    Ken W

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan M.
    everything seems fine and my wallet is smiling. 12cents per li savings is nothing to sneeze at.
    Not many people understand fuel economy, or more correctly, what it costs to drive one kilometer. It's usually more economical to use 98 RON in modern cars, than 91 or even 95. It might cost you more at the pump, but the marvels of knock sensors and modern ECU's can make use of the additional RON.

    eg

    cents/L divided by km/L = cents/km

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    Not many people understand fuel economy, or more correctly, what it costs to drive one kilometer. It's usually more economical to use 98 RON in modern cars, than 91 or even 95. It might cost you more at the pump, but the marvels of knock sensors and modern ECU's can make use of the additional RON.
    Exactly... you should use the MINIMUM octane rating you car can run on.

    98 RON in a car designed to run on 91 or 95 RON fuel is a waste of money

    But then again it's in the interests of fuel companies to get the consumer to purchase the most expensive fuel.... isn't it?

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    When optimax was 6-8cents a litre more expesive it worked out about the same (my car certainly feels to run better on it too).

    However with it 10-12cents a litre more expensive I can't see any motor breaking even when using the cost per km idea (unless possibly you have a very small capacity, highly tuned motor).

    I've got a tank full of optimax at the moment. Next tank I'll use ULP. I don't really expect a huge difference in ecomony. The way the car runs is what makes the difference.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    98 RON in a car designed to run on 91 or 95 RON fuel is a waste of money
    No, I think you've missed my point entirely.

    If you have a modern car, with one, or maybe even two knock sensors, the engine will keep tuning itself to get the most out of the fuel.

    Without running at least two tanks of each fuel and measuring the km/L reasonably accurately, you wouldn't be able to verify which fuel is best.

    On an early Mi16 or BX16V for example, 95 RON needs to be 10c/L dearer than 91, before 91 becomes the cheaper fuel. Most of the time it's only 6 cents.

    My Nissan Patrol on LPG is cheaper to run than my Xantia on 98. The Nissan works out at around 8 c/Km, while the Xantia is approx. 9c/Km on 98.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    Exactly... you should use the MINIMUM octane rating you car can run on.

    98 RON in a car designed to run on 91 or 95 RON fuel is a waste of money

    But then again it's in the interests of fuel companies to get the consumer to purchase the most expensive fuel.... isn't it?
    Err, I think you missed Peter T's point.

    If you've got a modern car, your EFI should use the knock sensor, and the O2 sensor to adjust the cars behaviour to the fuel. With fuel like optimax (denser), the engine needs less of it for the same combustive power. Even in the AX, which doesnt use a knock sensor, I still get a reasonable increase in economy when using Optimax.

  17. #17
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    No, I think you've missed my point entirely.

    If you have a modern car, with one, or maybe even two knock sensors, the engine will keep tuning itself to get the most out of the fuel.

    Without running at least two tanks of each fuel and measuring the km/L reasonably accurately, you wouldn't be able to verify which fuel is best.

    On an early Mi16 or BX16V for example, 95 RON needs to be 10c/L dearer than 91, before 91 becomes the cheaper fuel. Most of the time it's only 6 cents.

    My Nissan Patrol on LPG is cheaper to run than my Xantia on 98. The Nissan works out at around 8 c/Km, while the Xantia is approx. 9c/Km on 98.
    Hi Peter,

    I think you will find the old 8valve BX motor in our 405/BX/Xantias runs adequatly on standard ULP. My BX19tri did nearly 100,000kms on standard ULP ... Runs very well on it. I tried the Xantia on 95RON PULP and the difference (If any) was neglible both economy and power wise.

    You see, they don't have knock senders and appear to have a hard coded engine mapping that caters for our cr@ppy standard ULP. Putting in the high octane brew make no difference as the ignition mapping can't be changed to make use of it.

    My old CX GTi Turbo it does make a difference in. The car has a knock sender so advances the ignition to the maximum possible setting on optimax, yet with standard PULP will retard the sh!t out of the ignition as knock will be sensed immediatly (though the car still runs perfectly on it, it's down on power and fuel economy is reduced).

    Have you tried you Xantia on bog stand ULP I think you'll save 10cents a litre with no loss (she certainly is no Mi/BX 16valve motor).

    seeya,
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Just did the calculations on the trip to FCD at UQ plus a small amount thereafter and it came in at 8.7 litres/ 100klms using ULP.

    Last time I did a test I must admit it wasn't over as long a distance but it was over 200 klms from Nambour and into Brisbane and back to Nambour including a bit of around town running and I was amazed at the fuel efficiency 6.9L /100 klms

    Difference? The Nambour trip was on Optimax so if 1.8 L/100 klms is a guide as to the diference, still makes the PULP look cheap.


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  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Just did the calculations on the trip to FCD at UQ plus a small amount thereafter and it came in at 8.7 litres/ 100klms using ULP.

    Last time I did a test I must admit it wasn't over as long a distance but it was over 200 klms from Nambour and into Brisbane and back to Nambour including a bit of around town running and I was amazed at the fuel efficiency 6.9L /100 klms

    Difference? The Nambour trip was on Optimax so if 1.8 L/100 klms is a guide as to the diference, still makes the PULP look cheap.


    Alan S
    Hi Alan,

    that really does surprise me, the old BX used to run 43mpg consitantly on standard, cheapest I could buy ULP.

    I'll have to do some more testing on the Xantia. I'll fill a few tanks with Optimax, then a few with ULP. It only really drives around town recently. I think the difference for me will be hardly noticable

    seeya,
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I think you will find the old 8valve BX motor in our 405/BX/Xantias runs adequatly on standard ULP. ................I tried the Xantia on 95RON PULP and the difference (If any) was neglible both economy and power wise.

    You see, they don't have knock senders and appear to have a hard coded engine mapping that caters for our cr@ppy standard ULP. .
    You're probably referring to the XU9JAZ. My Xantia has the XU10J2 which definitely has a knock sensor. With 10.4:1 it definitely needs 95 RON minimum (as stated on the sticker under the bonnet) and pings on 91.

    Even being an auto, it regularly returns 41 mpg at a steady 110 km/h when using 98 RON.
    Last edited by PeterT; 15th July 2005 at 01:23 PM.

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  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    You're probably referring to the XU9JAZ. My Xantia has the XU10J2 which definitely has a knock sensor. With 10.4:1 it definitely needs 95 RON minimum (as stated on the sticker under the bonnet) and pings on 91.

    Even being an auto, it regularly returns 41 mpg at a steady 110 km/h when using 98 RON.
    Interesting, I'm going to have a search and see if I can find a knock sender on it (my reasoning being, why are you guys getting pinging if there's a knock sensor ).

    Either way, I'm going to average the next few tanks of ULP (I've never heard it ping), then run a few tanks of Optimax to see if I can find a difference.

    seeya,
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Where is the announcement.... That sounds most unlike a fuel company. After all what are they going to do with there PULP bowsers now (PULP being different to Optimax).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I don't know with you guys, but here in Geelong (where Shell's major Refinery is) there's no more 91 ULP, there's no more PULP and there's no more LRP too. Been at the station yesterday, there's only regular 95 ULP and 98 Optimax (plus of course diesel and gas). Checked the price of the 95 ULP, it's the same as the 91 RON from other brands. I don't know, maybe it's a state to state case, but I'm glad I can get 95 ULP at the 91 ULP price, and my Xsara does'nt mind the 95 RON, no dramas after 2 full tanks.

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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Sounds like your getting a good deal down there. Up here in Qld we seem to still have 91, 95, 98 with their respective pricing.

    All of our cars run on either optimax or ultimate - our day to day cars run optimax - milage seems to be the best, and my GT runs on ultimate as its the only fuel that can keep the pinging away.

    Dave


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Sounds like your getting a good deal down there. Up here in Qld we seem to still have 91, 95, 98 with their respective pricing.

    All of our cars run on either optimax or ultimate - our day to day cars run optimax - milage seems to be the best, and my GT runs on ultimate as its the only fuel that can keep the pinging away.

    Dave
    I understand that when the stock of the 91 ULP is exhausted, Shell will only be selling 95 and 98. Wait until August if what I heard is right.

    With my Xsara, there no huge difference in mileage. Maybe I get 3% less kms per li but I pay 10% cheaper for 95ULP. It's still a net 7% savings.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=DoubleChevron]Interesting, I'm going to have a search and see if I can find a knock sender on it (my reasoning being, why are you guys getting pinging if there's a knock sensor ).
    QUOTE]

    There's only so much a knock sensor can do. Once it's out of range the engine will ping.

    It will be interesting to see the results of your tests.

    We still have 91, 95 and 98 in Sydney, priced accordingly.

    '92 205 Mi16
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