DS Buying advice, which one??
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  1. #1
    Member Pommiefrog's Avatar
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    Default DS Buying advice, which one??

    Hi guys/girls,

    I am new to this fine forum of yours, been trowling for a good forum for Citroens and now it seems I may have found one (hopefully).

    I own a Series 2 Citroen CX Turbo Diesel and i am very happy with it and I have always wanted a DS but I am very confused as to which one I should go for, hence I need your advice.

    I would prefer one which offered the best mpg as I inted to drive her a lot around Europe, did the later ones come with a fifth gear?

    Is the carburated 2.0lt more economical then the EFI 2.3 model, or vice versa?

    I dont want to go for the old shape but the modern shark look is what I prefer. Would appreciate your thoughts as to what model is the best one to go for in terms of economy, comfort, reliability etc..

    I know it might not be an easy question to answer as it is a bit subjective but please have a go!

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    Thank you

    George
    London, UK

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Forget the fuel consumption and type. Buy the best possible car you can afford, especially in the UK. Doens't matter if it's the lowest of the low Dsuper, as long as it's rust free.

    Do get someone that knows DS's REALLY well to check any car you intend to purchase.

    If I was in the market for a DS, I'd be after a DS21 hydraulique pallas. But hey, you wouldn't buy one of them that's a dog over a good DSuper.

    Remember DS's rust REALLY BADLY on your salted roads. It will have to be a summer only car.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  3. #3
    Member Pommiefrog's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=DoubleChevron]
    If I was in the market for a DS, I'd be after a DS21 hydraulique pallas. But hey, you wouldn't buy one of them that's a dog over a good DSuper.
    QUOTE]

    Thanks for the reply, was just checking out your cool web pages.

    Whats the difference, apart from the extra capacity, with a DS21 Pallas and a DS2.3 Pallas? Did they both have the swivel front lamps?

    I take on board about buying the most rust free example I can find, the car would be used as Summer Transport, but she might have to be kept on the drive as I dont think my garage would be long enough .

    I appreciate the help, I have bought 3 Citroen DS books and non explain the differences in the models in any great detail, they just show pretty pictures.

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You DS books will give you all the details without repeating all the stuff.

    DS21 == 2.1litre motor
    DS23 == 2.3litre motor.

    The injected cars have a lot more power than the carby cars. None of them are fast. None are fuel efficient by modern standards, though the early 1.9litre long stroke engine as quite good economy wise. They are quite 'sedate' though.

    Only post '68 model cars have the 3rd nose with turning headlights. Not all had turning headlights, it was an option on budget models.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say none of them are fast, on the contrary they can be very fast!
    When I went to the citromobile in Holland recently, I was in my CX 22TRS, in a convoy of DS's of various types. Going down the M20 to dover, I was behind this DS20, and we were doing nearly 100mph pretty much all the way!!
    If I was in my turbo, this wouldn't bother me, but the 22 doesn't like it much past 80! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    I wouldn't say none of them are fast, on the contrary they can be very fast!
    When I went to the citromobile in Holland recently, I was in my CX 22TRS, in a convoy of DS's of various types. Going down the M20 to dover, I was behind this DS20, and we were doing nearly 100mph pretty much all the way!!
    If I was in my turbo, this wouldn't bother me, but the 22 doesn't like it much past 80! john s
    Hi John,

    the long stroke D's top out at about 90mph, however the long stroker happy to sit at that speed all day everyday.... The 2.1 (especially the injected cars), were good for about 110-118mph depending on injection/gearing. 100mph would be a nice cruising speed. Top speed where Citroens are involved has never really been a problem. Even the lowest powered big Cit's .... Once they accumulate speed they are happy to hold it.

    Unless your looking at the late injected D's I would say they "accumulate speed" as apposed to "accelerate".

    I thought my '63 ID19 was 'sedate', however since driving several others it's actually one of the rortiest ID19's you'll come across. For some reason for an ID19 it goes quite well. "Going well" being a very comparitive term.

    On a more serious note, if you live in salt laden UK, and don't have a proper garage to store your DS in over winter you will rapidly see it dissappear before your eyes. Out here we can still use them as a daily car. Over there they need to be a toy/summer car.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Member Pommiefrog's Avatar
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    Salt laden roads would not be a good idea to drive a classic car on and nor do I intend to, if I can help it at all.

    I would much prefer it living in a nice warm garage, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the DS is just too long for my garage, so will have to live outside my drive through rain or shine. A breathable car cover would probably be a good investment.
    Regards,

    George
    Leicestershire, England
    1971 DS21 EFI, Pallas, BVH, Blog:http://www.mypallas.net

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pommiefrog
    Salt laden roads would not be a good idea to drive a classic car on and nor do I intend to, if I can help it at all.

    I would much prefer it living in a nice warm garage, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the DS is just too long for my garage, so will have to live outside my drive through rain or shine. A breathable car cover would probably be a good investment.
    Well George, buy now, as you might not be able to afford anything after you host the Olympics. We are still paying for ours.
    Bet the Froggs are p!$$#d at loosing their bid.

    Hoo roo
    Cooch
    Last edited by Cooch Goodwin; 7th July 2005 at 10:21 AM.

  9. #9
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I have to say, that most of us here in Britain (I usually say England) are over the moon about winning the olympic bid! And yes the frogs are very disapointed about losing, but they are always bad losers anyway! One of our national newspapers today started slating the french and talking up britain.
    About french food, saying that oysters looked like snot in an ashtray, and how the french could keep their bloody cars. I disagree with both! French cars are great, interesting, inovative, whereas British cars, are BANKRUPT!, boring, un-inspiring, and just plane crap. (the austin mini was the last great car me made, not the bmw abomination) And the food, I like loads of french food, but maybe not the oysters (the journo might have a point with that one!!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pommiefrog
    Salt laden roads would not be a good idea to drive a classic car on and nor do I intend to, if I can help it at all.

    I would much prefer it living in a nice warm garage, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the DS is just too long for my garage, so will have to live outside my drive through rain or shine. A breathable car cover would probably be a good investment.
    Car covers are much worse IMO than leaving them uncovered. They will sweet under a car cover as soon as the sun comes out leaving every surface of the car covered in moisture (even the interior of the car).

    The problem is DS's rust very badly "underneath" where the unpainted and unprotected box sections are very vulnerable to rust. I'd suggest finding a lockup where you can store a car undercover before searching out a DS (it is going to be a LOT of searching to find a good one at a reasonable price. I suggest a LHD car from France would be the cheapest and easiest way to get a reasonable DS.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    I have to say, that most of us here in Britain (I usually say England) are over the moon about winning the olympic bid! And yes the frogs are very disapointed about losing, but they are always bad losers anyway! One of our national newspapers today started slating the french and talking up britain.
    About french food, saying that oysters looked like snot in an ashtray, and how the french could keep their bloody cars. I disagree with both! French cars are great, interesting, inovative, whereas British cars, are BANKRUPT!, boring, un-inspiring, and just plane crap. (the austin mini was the last great car me made, not the bmw abomination) And the food, I like loads of french food, but maybe not the oysters (the journo might have a point with that one!!! john s
    Yeah John I remember seeing a bit about it in one of our papers, kinda cross channel food fight.
    Do'nt get me wrong we loved our games but we still feel the pain.

    Interesting, My wife just got back from a teachers confrence in Syd and bought some bumper stickers home.

    HAVE YOU GOT ALL THE FACTS OR DO YOU READ THE DAILY TELEGRAPH (read SUN)

    DO YOU KNOW THE FACTS OR ARE YOU NEWS LIMMITED

    These are from memory see cv, and may be different from the original.


    Hoo roo
    Cooch

  12. #12
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooch Goodwin
    Yeah John I remember seeing a bit about it in one of our papers, kinda cross channel food fight.
    Do'nt get me wrong we loved our games but we still feel the pain.

    Interesting, My wife just got back from a teachers confrence in Syd and bought some bumper stickers home.

    HAVE YOU GOT ALL THE FACTS OR DO YOU READ THE DAILY TELEGRAPH (read SUN)

    DO YOU KNOW THE FACTS OR ARE YOU NEWS LIMMITED

    These are from memory see cv, and may be different from the original.


    Hoo roo
    Cooch
    Last time I was in Australia, I stayed in guildford just outside Sydney. On my frequent trips into the city, I went past the olympic stadium, It looks good, but I'm told it isn't much used. I never visited it while I was there, and I will put that right when I next come. Also the olympic train, I'm told it has spent more time broken down than on the tracks? john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    Last time I was in Australia, I stayed in guildford just outside Sydney. On my frequent trips into the city, I went past the olympic stadium, It looks good, but I'm told it isn't much used. I never visited it while I was there, and I will put that right when I next come. Also the olympic train, I'm told it has spent more time broken down than on the tracks? john s
    Guilford, Who owns the pub there now?

    Yeah I have been to Olympic Park a couple of times for the Royal Easter Show and its a great space.

    Hoo roo
    Cooch

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    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    They say that getting a Citroen DS from the south of France or Holland is the way to go.

    From what I can gather by reading the classifieds in the Citroenian, The DS's for sale are cars that need a bit of "welding", or ones that are in showroom condition - there doesn't seem to be much else around. But come to think of it, we in Australia have something similar but we probably wouldn't even contemplate restoring cars that the English seem to think are salvageble, which I guess is a testiment to their enthusiasm and defiance.

    Right hand drives DS's seem more expensive in the UK than their LHD counterparts - which is always nice to know. Driving a LHD DS in London (for example) would be quite a daunting task, I'd imagine.

    I own a DS21 with a hydraulic gearchange and fuel injection - which is a mechanic's best friend - but only because he likes this particular variant, mind you

    The French seem to regard the hydraulique gear change variant as the true DS, but living with a mere 4 speed manual is (of course) do-able.

    For simplicity, a DSpťcial, DSuper or DSuper5 would be the way to go and is often suggested as a perfect, more practical starting point. Getting a DS23 EFI 5-speed with air would be delving into the deep end, just a little.

    But with proper research and obtaining advice from a specialist, what could possibly go wrong?
    Last edited by donat; 7th July 2005 at 10:19 PM.
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  15. #15
    Member Pommiefrog's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for the replies.

    LHD would be the only option, as I would want value for money and I want to tour Europe in it.
    Regards,

    George
    Leicestershire, England
    1971 DS21 EFI, Pallas, BVH, Blog:http://www.mypallas.net

  16. #16
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    For sheer simplicity and economy you can't go past a D Spercial or Super with the 1985cc engine and four speed box. The performace is better than most people thinki cause the engine is the smoothest of the short stroke D's and revs quite well. The 23 engine is a bit torquier but doesn't rev out so well. A D Special will cruise at 80mph with no probs and give reasonable fuel economy.

    I would avoid a 5 speed box unless you were sure of its mechanical integrity. The overall gearing of a 5 speed is similar in top gear to a 4 speed, so won't give significant savings in petrol. From memory road tests usually quoted the fuel injection cars as having worse fuel economy than the earlier carb cars.

    You would expect slightly over 30mpg for a 1985cc carb, i got 28 from my 23 safari, a little less from my current 23 saloon ( prob needs a carb rebuild) and i would think a fuel injection car to return about 25mpg.

    The best book to buy is Origional DS by John Reynolds, now out of print but you should get a used copy somewhere.
    As mentioned above, any D model in good condition would be suitable for your purpose, enjoy.

  17. #17
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    Last time I was in Australia, I stayed in guildford just outside Sydney.


    I know a few who may take exception to the "just outside of" bit, smiffy

    Now Guildford is just outside of London, but is a suburb of Sydney.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  18. #18
    Member Pommiefrog's Avatar
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    Peter thanks for your thoughts.. good info to soak in there.

    Been reading some useful press cuttings reviewing the DS on this site, which has also been very helpful.

    The book by John Reynolds is one that I am very interested in getting hold of but I can't seem to find a copy, if anyone has a spare one availablle to sell, or know where i could obtain one, then please get in touch.
    Regards,

    George
    Leicestershire, England
    1971 DS21 EFI, Pallas, BVH, Blog:http://www.mypallas.net

  19. #19
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206


    I know a few who may take exception to the "just outside of" bit, smiffy

    Now Guildford is just outside of London, but is a suburb of Sydney.
    I was a bit concerned that there was a Liverpool in sydney, I thought the train was going to be jacked up while some scouser stole the wheels!
    john s

    (before any scousers start to berrate me, I was born in liverpool, the REAL one)
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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