Where's the Switch?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default Where's the Switch?

    OK Gurus. I'm in the middle of some work on Moby Dick and trying to find out why the hydraulic pressure warning light won't go. In theory all I need to do is trace the wiring back from the switch, but I can't find the bloody switch!

    My manual shows it in the wiring diagrams and mentions how to test it on a bench, but declines to tell me where it really is!

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    Am I right in assuming it's integral with the brake controller and accessible from the driver's floor?

    Car is a 1974 D Special ("DV" type designation)

    Thanks in anticipation!
    Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's) Grandma's Taxi
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick") Weekend Warrior
    2015 C4 Grand Picasso ("Pablo") Workhorse & Grandpa's Taxi
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned Traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Bonsai CX
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  2. #2
    Local Tyrant gibgib's Avatar
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    Default

    No one's helping you
    Don't know if it helps as I only know GS's but there is a 4 way union on them on the firewall (in engine bay) just near the brake pedal feeding the braking system.
    The pressure switch/ sender sits out horizontally & has a round lug connector to it.
    That's a GS anyway. Failing that, follow the high pressure lines after the accumulator & look for a junction.
    A lot of the stuff between GS, DS & CX looks the same to me.

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I thought I'd leave this to someone that can readily check under there DS bonnet.

    On the old ID19 I know it's below the coil down in the bowels of the engine compartment (deep down). It's easy to pick as it's the only hydraulic item with a wire to it Look for a loose wire next to a bullet connector on a hydraulic item. No doubt it's just unplugged.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the info so far.

    I've been informed that it should be on the safety valve mounted under the cover inside the left hand wheel arch. Unfortunately the safety valve on my car has a plug where I reckon the switch should be. If I could find a wire somewhere I would be satisfied that the switch had simply been removed, but I've searched in vain for a wire anywhere near there.

    I'll look closer down below the ignition coil, but the output pipe from the pressure regulator goes directly to the aforementioned safety valve.

    Research is continuing!
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's) Grandma's Taxi
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick") Weekend Warrior
    2015 C4 Grand Picasso ("Pablo") Workhorse & Grandpa's Taxi
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned Traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Bonsai CX
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Well I've looked everywhere except under the brake controller cover. (I'm saving that to last as it means crawling under the dash, and I'm not built for such convolutions!)

    The attached picture shows the safety valve, with no switch evident and definitely no wire to be found either!

    The wiring diagram for the DV series shows item 28 to be the switch in question, but shows it separate to any wiring loom.

    The same manual has a vague picture of a small switch-like lump being tested on the bench, but no indication of where it belongs.

    I'd still like to know where else I should be searching. There must be someone out there who knows where they hid it on a D Special?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Where's the Switch?-lh-side-safety-valve-small.jpg  
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's) Grandma's Taxi
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick") Weekend Warrior
    2015 C4 Grand Picasso ("Pablo") Workhorse & Grandpa's Taxi
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned Traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Bonsai CX
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default I Can't Believe No-one Knows!

    Come on! Where are all the DS Gurus?

    Surely someone out there must know where to find this bloody switch? Am I the only one crazy enough to go looking for it? (Or am I the only one crazy enough to work on a DS myself?)
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's) Grandma's Taxi
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick") Weekend Warrior
    2015 C4 Grand Picasso ("Pablo") Workhorse & Grandpa's Taxi
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned Traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Bonsai CX
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Pottsy,

    I'll try to have a look tonight (the problem being the cars up the back yard and it's dark when I get home !!!!).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    Hi Pottsy,

    I'm not a DS guru, but I agree with Gibgib -- look for the brake control valve That socket-looking bit on the side of the safety valve is probably the where the bum of the internal spring sits, rather than a blanked-off switch.

    Chris
    GS 1220 break. Beige cars go faster

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default Found It! (Possibly)

    I spoke to Robert Kalbrenner from Heka in Melbourne today. He told me that if it isn't under the LH side panel, then it's nestled in with the brake controller, a conclusion I was approaching rapidly.

    Once I finish re-assembling driveshafts and such and get the car on its wheels and out of the garage, I'll start looking around in the driver's footwell.

    If it's there I'll post a photo for posterity!

    Until I get it out of the garage I can't easily access the area. Always thought the garage was too small!
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's) Grandma's Taxi
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick") Weekend Warrior
    2015 C4 Grand Picasso ("Pablo") Workhorse & Grandpa's Taxi
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned Traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Bonsai CX
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  10. #10
    DS
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    If you look at a wiring diagram you will see that it can be on the brake unit. Australian delivery D Specials all came with roller trolley brake valves like are standard on Pallas cars. There is a pressure switch there.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    The wiring diagram I have (in a copy of the factory manual) shows the switch as item 28 and positions it towards the bottom of the diagram, notionally in the right place to be under the lh guard. The wire, however, is not shown in the loom. It's shown as an "Mr" (Marron = brown) wire which extends across on its own to join into the main loom seemingly with the wire from the brake light switch.

    This was what made me contemplate it being associated with the brake controller in the first place. What is inexplicable is why it isn't shown beside the brake light switch rather than as it is, on a remote part of the diagram.

    I guess we can never assume that wiring diagrams are either accurate or cover all models, but it seemed strange at the time.

    Robert asked me which type of brake my car had which surprised me as I have never experienced any other type of pedal in a DS. Mind you, my experience of D's is limited to my old DS23 and this D Special, not a huge range! My experience of the wiring and hydraulics is rapidly expanding, however.

    In the past week or so I have (a) replaced the pressure regulator and main accumulator, (b) made and fitted an adaptor for the oil pressure switch and a gauge, (c) tidied up a lot of redundant wiring around the battery and alternator area, (d) removed, cleaned and re-booted both driveshafts. Each of these tasks has been waiting for me to have the time and enthusiasm to tackle, so I did them all together over a number of nights. I can't wait to get back behind the wheel. It should be a new improved whale!
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's) Grandma's Taxi
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick") Weekend Warrior
    2015 C4 Grand Picasso ("Pablo") Workhorse & Grandpa's Taxi
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned Traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Bonsai CX
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Well, I found this older thread while searching for the pressure warning switch on my 1973 DS. As mentioned above the switch is located on the brake pedal for cars with DS style braking where as the D Specials etc with ID style braking have a switch in the left hand wheel arch.

    I have no low pressure warning light and I want to check the electrical connection at the switch.

    My question is how do I access the brake pedal? I can lift the carpets and remove the mushroom and the plastic cover but then there are lots of screws seemingly holding the pedal valve body to the cover plate. Can anyone tell me how to remove the cover plate?
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Well, I found out how to get the cover off the brake pedal gear... I just needed an American screwdriver. The cover had fixed itself firmly to the floor.

    The fault was in the pressure switch but fortunately I had a spare so all working properly again. I feel perhaps the low pressure warning light is a useful thing to have in a DS! The car is beginning to function much better now with a rebult HP pump and rebuilt brake accumulator so the light is giving very reassuring messages.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    Hi Potsy

    Damn didn't have a look earlier at this thread. Also remember if you get the light while touching the brake or quick turns of the steeringwheel etc then the switch at the pedal is on it's way out too, recently did my Safari's. Did yours leak it's guts out too? I have had 2 failures and both dripped LHM out furiously.

    As a precaution did you bleed the brakes? Sometimes air do get into the system after replacing the switch, although it's not connected in series with the other brake lines.

    Now that you know where it is you'll never forget

    I think I am right in saying that when the priority valve has the sensor you don't have the mushroom brake but the "ordinary" pedal, and the mushroom brake has the switch close to the pedal, not sure about the older 60's D but I think it's true for the later Dees.

    Since I replaced my switch I have this annoying voilent brake pedal pulse when the car has been standing for a week or more, only happens on first brake push, after that it's all gone. Just check if yours do the same, if not, well then yours must be perfect

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

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  15. #15
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    Corne,

    the pulse you feel is probably air trapped in the braking system. Bleed the brakes and see how it goes.

    Regards,

    fento

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    Fento

    Yup I have bled the brakes quite a few times, definitely more than 6 times! I've given up o trying to get it out, I am used to it after 3 years.. Wow 3 years pass quickly!

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    - Vincent van Gogh

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