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    Fellow Frogger! robo's Avatar
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    Default k,light

    My bx 16 valve won't start again thought I'd fixed it but No.
    The k,light has been coming on and off all week,what is it trying to tell me ?
    It was taking longer and longer to start in the morning and now just gives a little kick when I let go of the key. Any ideas ?

    Thanks Mark...

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    Last edited by robo; 1st July 2005 at 08:43 PM.

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    twm
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    Quote Originally Posted by robo
    My bx won't start again thought I'd fixed it but No.
    The k,light has been coming on and off all week,what is it trying to tell me ?
    It was taking longer and longer to start in the morning and now just gives a little kick when I let go of the key. Any ideas ?

    Thanks Mark...
    Which model and what is a K light?

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! robo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twm
    Which model and what is a K light?
    Its a 16 valve bx and has a yellow light on the dash with a K on it.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Sounds like the ignition is a bit down on spark power. Try taking the lead coming from the coil to the distributor cap off the cap and hold it with some well insulated pliers about 5 mm from some engine metal. Get someone to crank it over. You should get an even spark that should jump a gap up to several cms.

    Have you tried giving the throttle a shove as you let the key off. This technique used to get my TRI 122 started when it was not interested in hot starting after a 10-15 minute stop.

    Below ares some web addresses which offer some troubleshooting advice and describe how to read the codes from your ECU. Can be a bit tricky getting it to work the first time, but I've been doing it for years now on many BXs. You don't need the extra display as the K light will flash out the codes, all you need is a bit of wire and a good chassis earth point so you can short the diagnostic K lead to it. Find the green two terminal connector coming out of the big ECU loom that comes into the engine bay between the LHM reservoir and the sphere on the drivers side of the engine bay. Turn it so that the recessed edge is at the top and the terminal you need to short to chassis is the left hand one (from memory). When you short the lead to chassis, the K light will stay on but should go off as soon as you release the wire from the chassis point after the 3 seconds. I usually use a long piece of wire and short it to the earth return point of the interior light switch near the hinges of the drivers door so I can see the K light and do the earthing solo.

    http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/fuel/diags.html

    http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/fuel/test.html

    Good Luck and let us know how you get on. Happy to offer more advice if you need it.

    Ken W
    Last edited by Ken W; 1st July 2005 at 09:33 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! robo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W
    Sounds like the ignition is a bit down on spark power. Try taking the lead coming from the coil to the distributor cap off the cap and hold it with some well insulated pliers about 5 mm from some engine metal. Get someone to crank it over. You should get an even spark that should jump a gap up to several cms.

    Have you tried giving the throttle a shove as you let the key off. This technique used to get my TRI 122 started when it was not interested in hot starting after a 10-15 minute stop.

    Below ares some web addresses which offer some troubleshooting advice and describe how to read the codes from your ECU. Can be a bit tricky getting it to work the first time, but I've been doing it for years now on many BXs. You don't need the extra display as the K light will flash out the codes, all you need is a bit of wire and a good chassis earth point so you can short the diagnostic K lead to it. Find the green two terminal connector coming out of the big ECU loom that comes into the engine bay between the LHM reservoir and the sphere on the drivers side of the engine bay. Turn it so that the recessed edge is at the top and the terminal you need to short to chassis is the left hand one (from memory). When you short the lead to chassis, the K light will stay on but should go off as soon as you release the wire from the chassis point after the 3 seconds. I usually use a long piece of wire and short it to the earth return point of the interior light switch near the hinges of the drivers door so I can see the K light and do the earthing solo.

    http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/fuel/diags.html

    http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/fuel/test.html

    Good Luck and let us know how you get on. Happy to offer more advice if you need it.

    Ken W
    Thanks Ken I'll give it a try in the morning, Charging the battery tonight as it weant flat trying to start.
    This happend about a month ago and I replaced the lead from coil to Dissy then thought I'd found the fault but no...
    Cheers Mark..

    I replaced the lead from coil to dissy

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    Mark,
    does it sound like its trying to fire just as you release the starter? Had exactly the same thing on my 16V once and turned out to be corrosion on the crank angle sensor connector lurking underneath the battery. In my case ithis connector was tucked up amongst the foam padded aircon pipes under the tray which had accumulated a seepage of battery acid from the breather hose. Cleaned thoroughly, repositioned and no more problems.
    IanW

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    Fellow Frogger! robo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW
    Mark,
    does it sound like its trying to fire just as you release the starter? Had exactly the same thing on my 16V once and turned out to be corrosion on the crank angle sensor connector lurking underneath the battery. In my case ithis connector was tucked up amongst the foam padded aircon pipes under the tray which had accumulated a seepage of battery acid from the breather hose. Cleaned thoroughly, repositioned and no more problems.
    IanW
    Thats whats happing it fires as i let the key go..
    Ive got the battrey out now so I'll do what you've said.

    Thanks Ken

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    Here's a bit more for the collection:

    Citroen BX TZi ECU diagnostic codes

    Also being a 16V be very careful that you are getting a full 12 volts at the starter.
    I have had a similar problem for a while mainly due to the starter only getting about 10.5 volts at the solenoid. This seems to pull the solenoid in slower than if it gets a full 12V and as a result will cause burning on the commutator which in turn burns the brushes and eventually will stuff the ignition switch.

    PeterT has posted about how and where to fit the relay to the starter and I recently did the starter motor rebuild which may help.

    General Mi16/BX16V starter motor removal.

    It's also worthy of note, that if the charge drops on the battery to below I think it's 11.5 volts that the ECU will shut up shop to a degree and the yellow "K" light will come on and stay on.
    If it drops another 1 volt I think it is, the ECU just simply says 'go away I don't want to play' and just will not start.
    Also on the passenger side inner guard, there are two relays; one for the EFi and the other for the fuel I think it is.

    This may also be of some help.

    http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/Electrical/


    Alan S
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robo
    Thats whats happing it fires as i let the key go..
    Ive got the battrey out now so I'll do what you've said.

    Thanks Ken
    Whilst your on the job under there, you'll find two multi plugs that can tend to get corrosion.
    Pull apart and clean the terminals; save you some future headaches.
    I also agree with the crank angle sensor theory if the starter is spinning full belt.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robo
    My bx 16 valve won't start again thought I'd fixed it but No.
    The k,light has been coming on and off all week,what is it trying to tell me ?
    It was taking longer and longer to start in the morning and now just gives a little kick when I let go of the key. Any ideas ?

    Thanks Mark...
    The K light is telling you that there is a fault with the enging management system. If you can find one, you can buy a DIY fault reader from a good car spares shop, (draper tools do one for peugeot/citroen, cost £30) you just plug into the socket on the car, and it will tell you what is wrong. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Fellow Frogger! robo's Avatar
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    Got it going
    Cleaned up the connector under the battrey it was corroed as Ken said.
    It started stright off but the yellow light was on turned it off and on and it went out. Will get onto the ECU codes tomorrow.

    Thanks Guys

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    This is a very simple fault reader, that I bought this afternoon from a car accessory place, you just plug into the socket on your car, and count the flashes, and the supplied booklet tells you what it means. I don't know if you guys can get hold of anything similar in OZ, but if anyone wants one, I can always go and get one for you, and send it. (at your cost of course, what do you think I'm made of money?????)
    They cost about £20 buy, I will have to get a postage price. Better than chasing shadows when trying to find out why your cars crook!! john s
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails k,light-fault-finder.jpg  
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    What's the difference between that and this?

    Citroen BX TZi ECU diagnostic codes



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I was told this afternoon there was a way to make the K light into its own diagnnostic lamp, but without fully understanding it myself, I thought I'd better not say too much about it.
    I suppose it's ok doing it that way as long as you have a list of what the codes mean, and as long as you understand properly which wire on the socket you have to earth to make the light flash. The cautious side of me says there is a possability of getting this wrong, and f**king up your car good and proper!!! Bearing in mind that EC units are not readily available like here in england......
    Having briefly read the instructions for this little tester, I think even a dick head like me could understand them! It is possible for this unit to be used to interrogate other items such as ABS control units.
    I suppose at the end of the day, you pays your money, and takes your choice!! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    If you own nothing younger than a CX you don't have to worry about any of these faults lights .... (then again if it stops, much head scratching and swearing will happen as there is no hints given by a flashing light ).

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    This is indeed true! Even the last CX's in 1990 never had a diagnostic socket!
    john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twm
    Which model and what is a K light?
    Hi trevor, I posted the fault reader out this morning, and it should be with you in perhaps a little over a week. Please let me know when you get it.

    If anyone else needs any tools or stuff that you can't get in Oz, give me a shout, and I will see what I can do. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Just thought it was worth mentioning that the symbol on the "K" light is in fact a graphical representation of the International symbol for a transistor. I assume this is supposed to indicate the fact that there is a problem with the electronics.

    Granted, it looks like a "K" and I suppose it's easier to call it a K light than an Engine Management System Error Indication.

    Call me pedantic, but I figured it was worthwhile edumacating someone who was wondering what the K stood for!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy
    Call me pedantic, but I figured it was worthwhile edumacating someone who was wondering what the K stood for!

    I always thought it was "Kaktus" from the Latin; Kaktus rutii'


    Alan S
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    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Surely it would be Kaktus Malfuncti?

    My favourite, although not beginning with a K, is: "Finally, Unconditionally, Completely Terminated"! (Normally quoted as an acronym!)
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

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  21. #21
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy
    Surely it would be Kaktus Malfuncti?

    My favourite, although not beginning with a K, is: "Finally, Unconditionally, Completely Terminated"! (Normally quoted as an acronym!)

    Touche'


    Alan S
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    I was going to start a new thread but I figure keeping all relevant info together would be helpful for anyone wanting to search for this sort of stuff in future.

    My BX has largely been k-light free for about a year, which was refreshing. Recently I filled up with Caltex 95-octane fuel for a difference. I had always been running on 98-octane BP fuel.

    For some strange reason I felt the car behaved better on the 95 octane fuel, but towards the end of the tank I would occasionally get a k-light on after some acceleration. Weird!

    Now I've put 98 Caltex back in and the performance has dropped back again, plus I was getting the k-light after acceleration. This is getting a tad confusing!

    I took the car to Paul Vassallo in my lunch hour and we extracted the following codes; 44, 31 and 52. 44 and 52 refer to the knock sensor and oxygen sensor. 31 refers to 'wrong fuel/air mixture'.

    Paul said it was probably just bad fuel. We reset the ECU and it feels better, but I'm sceptical.

    What would the wizards of AF do? Replace knock sensor and O2 sensor anyway?

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'd certainly be sceptical whether the XU9J4Z with only 9.5:1 can utilise the additional octane rating of the 98. I know the XU9J4 with 10.4:1 responds to it. Someone else who has done some valid testing may have a better idea.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    To simplify matters; the knock sensor basically adjusts the spark whilst the O2 (Lambda sensor) basically adjusts the mixture.
    It is possible that the knock (or cam angle sensor) may just be loose or have a dodgy connection and I have a similar problem at present that I think is associated with the alambda being either loose or covered in shyte.
    I'd suggest just seeing how it goes before engaging in any replacements as neither are all that cheap and more times than not a cleaning and tightening will cure a lot of intermittent faults wuith them.
    I had suspicions you had a CAS a bit dodgy when the car seemed to run better on the 95 as though the spark was a bit retarded.

    Alan S
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    Wow. All these questions coming to mind...

    Brenno, I've been trying to find out for ages whether or not the K light, like most dash warning lamps, lights up then goes out once the car is started. Can you tell me please? No one answered last time I asked. Mine doesn't light ever, and I suspect the bulb's gone...

    Peter T, am I wasting my money putting 98 octane in my Mi (dead stock XU9J4Z)? I'd be really happy if 95 gives me the same performance!

    Alan, what does the term 'shyte' mean in layman's terms? I've looked through all my manuals and haven't been able to find it.

    Thanks guys

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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