Question about "flow meter" in CX turbo (preferably DoubleChevron)
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  1. #1
    Tadpole Pavel Sochan's Avatar
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    Default Question about "flow meter" in CX turbo (preferably DoubleChevron)

    Hey, I have question about The Cit CX GTi Turbo 2. And exactly about "flow meter" which is mouted to the air filter on the front right side of car. (If you have the workshop repair manual, some 230 megs, it is on side 194 - 302/flow meter, on the next page is photo of engine)

    So, I had the problem, that my car has at once (two days ago) start to jamming and from the exhaust got the black exhalation. If I remove the spark plugs they are black in all cylinders. I think that is enriched mixture. I tried to change the flow meter, nothing happens, then it goes on 2 cylinders sometimes on 3. I changed the coil on 1st-4th cylinder. Than it goes on 4 cylinders, thats good, but... It's still jamming and the engine tears on higher speed. So I turn in the flow meter with the black round with the spiral in it and tighten the spiral. The engine runs good even in high speed, better than ever.

    So, the question is if I tighten the spiral in the flow meter, if the engine consumption is bigger or not and if i do good thing turning with this wheel. Everyone said that is bad if is this meter opened.


    Cheers

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I guess your saying the car is running extremelly rich and blowing clouds of black smoke out of the back.

    The AFM is a device that is set at the factory and it's carbon tracks are cut with a lazer to ensure it's calibration is correct. I have moved the wiper on mine to an unworn peice of track, however I would NEVER recommend changing the spring tension. See here:

    http://frwilk.com/944dme/afm.htm

    As it's running rich I would first recommend checking the pressure in the fuel rail (mine did this about 2years ago as the petrol regulator turned intermittantly faulty). I suggest putting a pressure guage in the fuel rail to check for this.

    Simpler checks that will cause the same problem. Pull the fuel line from the cold start regulator and block it off, if the cold start injector is leaking the car will now run properly.

    As all cylinders appear to be equally rich/black I don't think the injectors on any individual cylinders are leaking.

    Next ... Temperature sender on the back of the head. Ensure it's readings are within the specified range. If not sure check these resistances at the computers plug as this will test the wiring as well.

    So first:

    --check fuel pressure
    --check for leaking cold start injector (on turbo I, I don't think turbo II have these)
    --check the temperature sender.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  3. #3
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I guess your saying the car is running extremelly rich and blowing clouds of black smoke out of the back.

    The AFM is a device that is set at the factory and it's carbon tracks are cut with a lazer to ensure it's calibration is correct. I have moved the wiper on mine to an unworn peice of track, however I would NEVER recommend changing the spring tension. See here:

    http://frwilk.com/944dme/afm.htm


    Simpler checks that will cause the same problem. Pull the fuel line from the cold start regulator and block it off, if the cold start injector is leaking the car will now run properly.

    So first:


    --check for leaking cold start injector (on turbo I, I don't think turbo II have these)


    seeya,
    Shane L.
    You'd be right in saying Turbo 2 cars don't have a cold start injector! john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  4. #4
    Tadpole Pavel Sochan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I guess your saying the car is running extremelly rich and blowing clouds of black smoke out of the back.

    The AFM is a device that is set at the factory and it's carbon tracks are cut with a lazer to ensure it's calibration is correct. I have moved the wiper on mine to an unworn peice of track, however I would NEVER recommend changing the spring tension. See here:

    http://frwilk.com/944dme/afm.htm

    As it's running rich I would first recommend checking the pressure in the fuel rail (mine did this about 2years ago as the petrol regulator turned intermittantly faulty). I suggest putting a pressure guage in the fuel rail to check for this.

    Simpler checks that will cause the same problem. Pull the fuel line from the cold start regulator and block it off, if the cold start injector is leaking the car will now run properly.

    As all cylinders appear to be equally rich/black I don't think the injectors on any individual cylinders are leaking.

    Next ... Temperature sender on the back of the head. Ensure it's readings are within the specified range. If not sure check these resistances at the computers plug as this will test the wiring as well.

    So first:

    --check fuel pressure
    --check for leaking cold start injector (on turbo I, I don't think turbo II have these)
    --check the temperature sender.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Hi, I checked everything what you wrote.

    1. Fuel pressure is OK. The pump operate good.
    2. Turbos II haven't cold start injector
    3. my friend checked this. He said thats ok.

    I didn't try to change lambda probe, I don't know if this could be the problem.

    BUT, if i change the spring tension, it's running better then ever. The engine is quiet. Running softly. And I thing thats have more power.

    Cheers
    CX 25 GTi Turbo 2 89

    CX 25 GTi Turbo 85

    CX 25 TRD Turbo 2 Break 90

    CX 25 GTi Automatic 87

    CX 25 TRD Turbo 2 85

    CX 25 RD Turbo 2 (for spare parts) 85


    CX is the best of all

  5. #5
    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Pavel, What shane was trying to say, is if the fuel pressure regulator is faulty, then there will be too much fuel pressure, and your car will make smoke, and the car will not peform properly.
    It's like if you eat too fast, you get indijestion, and so will the car if you force too much fuel into it. john s
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071
    Pavel, What shane was trying to say, is if the fuel pressure regulator is faulty, then there will be too much fuel pressure, and your car will make smoke, and the car will not peform properly.
    It's like if you eat too fast, you get indijestion, and so will the car if you force too much fuel into it. john s
    Yep, the fuel pressure

    BTW: How did he test the temp sender, just by pulling it's plug off and testing the sender itself ... What about the wiring back to the computer...... Does it make any difference to the car if you unplug the temperature sender while it's running If there is no difference I suggest you don't have a temperature sender connection back at the computer.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Tadpole Pavel Sochan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Yep, the fuel pressure

    BTW: How did he test the temp sender, just by pulling it's plug off and testing the sender itself ... What about the wiring back to the computer...... Does it make any difference to the car if you unplug the temperature sender while it's running If there is no difference I suggest you don't have a temperature sender connection back at the computer.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    about the sender, I dont know how, but he said that is good. I know how repair the technical problems, not the electricity in the car. I will test it alone. please tell me where the connector could be. do you have some photo of it? or where I could find it in the manual?

    and I test today the lambda second time, if I disconnect it (the two connectors) it is doing nothing suspicious, the engine runs as well as before.

    the wiring to the computer looks good (only by eyes).
    CX 25 GTi Turbo 2 89

    CX 25 GTi Turbo 85

    CX 25 TRD Turbo 2 Break 90

    CX 25 GTi Automatic 87

    CX 25 TRD Turbo 2 85

    CX 25 RD Turbo 2 (for spare parts) 85


    CX is the best of all

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Pavel,

    I don't have a Turbo II CX to refer to, however you should find the injection computer behind the glovebox. You will need the wiring diagram to find which wires go down to the temperature sender (so you can test the temperature senders resistance at the computer).

    Do you have the CX workshop manuals on CDROM ??

    A quick test is to unplug the temperature sender and see if the car runs differently (it's should run extremely poorly, like an old carby car with the choke full on). The temperature sender is located right next to Number 4 injector (number 1 injector being the gearbox end).



    If you join the CX-L list on www.yahoogroups.com someone will no doubt now the computer wiring diagram so you can test for the temperature sender at the computer.

    BTW: The only way to test the fuel pressure with any accuracy is with a guage:



    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Shane you really are an expert on the CX....

  10. #10
    Tadpole Pavel Sochan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Hi Pavel,

    I don't have a Turbo II CX to refer to, however you should find the injection computer behind the glovebox. You will need the wiring diagram to find which wires go down to the temperature sender (so you can test the temperature senders resistance at the computer).

    Do you have the CX workshop manuals on CDROM ??

    A quick test is to unplug the temperature sender and see if the car runs differently (it's should run extremely poorly, like an old carby car with the choke full on). The temperature sender is located right next to Number 4 injector (number 1 injector being the gearbox end).



    If you join the CX-L list on www.yahoogroups.com someone will no doubt now the computer wiring diagram so you can test for the temperature sender at the computer.

    BTW: The only way to test the fuel pressure with any accuracy is with a guage:



    seeya
    Shane L.
    Hi, I do the quick test of the temp sender. When I disconnect it, the engine stopped.


    I have the CX manual, I try to find the wirings.
    CX 25 GTi Turbo 2 89

    CX 25 GTi Turbo 85

    CX 25 TRD Turbo 2 Break 90

    CX 25 GTi Automatic 87

    CX 25 TRD Turbo 2 85

    CX 25 RD Turbo 2 (for spare parts) 85


    CX is the best of all

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Sounds good if the car stopped after unplugging the temp sender .... That means it's connected to the computer and working. The resistance range is mentioned in the manual. If it's within spec you can rule it out.

    Next we need to rule out the fuel pressure. Get a fuel pressure guage into the fuel line and check the fuel pressure. If it's ok we can rule that out and look for something else.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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