Water leaks & "auto" fluids
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Water leaks & "auto" fluids

    Had a sudden gush of green fluid come from beneath the CX the other day - EEEEEKK !!! Turned out to be water - Phew !! Today I decided to fix the problem which turned out to be a seam on the header tank which was faulty manufacture (non original) so I re soldered the header tank & thought the problem was solved; until; I looked at the top of the transmission cooler tank & spotted a drop of water leaking from the top. A pin hole - bugger!! As it is located under the radiator not much point in putting it into the "I'll do it some other time" basket so out it came. NOW here's the conunderum After carefully removing the hoses (using a pair of cutters ) only a small amount of ATF came out of the cooler itself; I'd say 1/2 a cupful and it was a pretty shitty colour - dark maroon almost black. This car was supposedly serviced just prior to purchase by a "reputable" Citroen service guy in Sydney yet this fluid looked as old as Methuselah and I would have expected a lot more of it in the cooler. Not only this but the hoses really only dripped a bit of ATF when I cut them. This car has been a dog to get into gear when cold but changes like a beauty once up to temperature.
    Is it possible that perhaps the filters weren't cleaned when they were supposed to & hence I am not getting the circulation of ATF that I should be? Is it possible that there is an internal fault other than this preventing circulation of the fluid? Am I a fruitcake worrying unnecessarily & there is really nothing wrong???
    Any clues gratefully accepted. BTW, it was only on late Friday that I gave the oil company rep who is supposedly finding/blending a replacement for Total T a kick up the ribs about getting back to me on this subject & once I am satisfied with his response intend changing the fluid.

    Alan S

    Advertisement
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,383
    Hi Alan,

    with your problem of getting the car into gear when it's cold, I'd take a guess and say you electro valve is probably sticking until it warms. ie: it isn't de-clutching to enable you to select a gear... Bet it goes into gear straight in with the motor off??

    Electro-valves for C-matics are worth there weight in gold. They appear to be the only part of the gearbox that plays up from what I can tell. A guy at my old mans work recently had one play up, so we gave the one to him out of my car from years ago. Since then Ash has wanted one, and I've been asked by a couple of other poeple about them. Apparantly if you can find one there worth $800++ More than most C-matic CX's are worth

    seeya,
    Shane L
    PS: Try heating just the soleniod up with a hair dryer the next time you have a cold morning and see if it'll go into gear maybe??
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    Shane,

    You are right, it does go in without any drama with the motor off.
    When you say it sticks, is there any way that it can be dismatled & freed up to your knowledge?? Remember that with electronics we probably have more gear & expertise than the average repairer - professional or otherwise.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,383
    Hi Alan,

    never had one apart. But electro-valve = solenoid. So I guess if the coil is ok, then the plunger could be just grabbing. If you could dissasemble it and say run the plunger in a drill or something making it nice and free could that fix it grabbing?? I've heard of them grabbing when hot and you drive through a puddle(instantly cooling it) causing you to be unable to change gears....

    Am I just talking crap?? probably ....

    Only one way to tell I guess, pull it apart and see. Let me guess, you can't reach it, can't se it, and no spanner known to man will get to it Well it is a Citroen

    I wonder if running a relay to it would help, guess it's time to whip out a voltmeter and take reading with the car in gear with headlights/rad fans on at an idle and see what you get...

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,822
    I hope you guys remember that the electrovalve wont work when the engines revs are up, its designed as not to allow you to select a gear with the engine reving (sorry guys, no burn outs), therefore when the engine cold and the choke is out so its reving a bit higher than usual it wont allow you to select a gear, push you choke in and it will go in easily, but then the motor stalls.
    We've had several attempts to repair them, we have been sucessful but only short term, new are no longer available and we are using up old stock, last one I bought was around $450 but I don't know if I can get any more.

    David.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  6. #6
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    Thanks guys,

    I have tried the push the choke in trick & accelerate fast (whoops there goes another cat under the back wheels ) but that is only occasionally successful. I have heard it said that it has been known for these c-matics to have a similar problem when stopped in traffic & put in neutral. At idle the voltage drops after a while & there is not enough oompf there to allow the electro valve to pull in. The suggestion there is as Shane says & fit a relay. I was wondering, as mine does it when cold as in left overnight and with some of the dodgy wiring that has not yet been sorted causing the rear fans to run consistently, could it be a simple case of the battery being down a bit and then it works OK after it has been runnung for a while? BTW, the electro valve we are talking about I presume is that silver cylinder with a black top which has two light gauge wires (one brown - one green) fitted to recessed nut & bolt type terminals and mounted on the transmission & facing the front of the car; am I looking at the right gadget??
    Thanks for your help thus far.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,383
    Hi Guys,

    all you safetly concious people will probably shoot me for saying this, but if it was my car, as a temporary 'fix', I'd probably short the switch that sensors if the car is in gear to earth, and start it in gear (You know though, you really will need to put your foot on the brake before you start it...). Not for the faint hearted , and don't let your 'Mrs' drive it, she'll kill you if you make her drive through the shed wall or something

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,822
    Yep thats it, ugly looking round thing staring at you (no I mean under the car).
    Every CX I've driven has that problem of voltage drop at idle, some have had relay on top of relay and they still seam to do it, I'm just used to sitting at lights with my foot slightly on the thottle just lifting the revs a couple of hundred and no problems but all this should have nothing to do with the motor being cold.
    Now heres a thought, what if you jump started it from another car, I mean do everthing as per normal but use a set of jumper leads onto another battery, at least that will tell you voltage is your problem. Just a thought, may not prove a bloody thing either.

    David.

    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    Thanx again David,

    I'll give that a go as soon as I replace the hoses to the oil cooler that were hard & cracked. 1/2" petrol line had been used on there so presumeably that is what I will have to use to replace it with.
    BTW, what's your thoughts on my description of the fluid. I have the info here that Shell & Castrol recommend for use in the transmission which is not Dextron - it's something developed for Ford many moons ago. Does the description (colourwise) sound like this stuff. The ATF that has leaked out (on me) seems to be clean enough but it is hard to tell when it's rolling down your arm.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,822
    Alan, yep I think your on the path, the Penrite people down here were saying some Ford ATF will do it, I can't think of the type but i have been using it for the past couple of weeks, so far so good but it's to early to tell.
    Sends a shudder up my spine at the thought of using Ford fluid, I even object to having to use the same fuel as them, but what can you do.

    David.

    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    THE GRANDE FINALE'

    Well everything comes to he who waits, providing he waits long enough
    The dreaded CX c-matic once again is mobile. Talk about Murphy's law wouldn't be in it.
    The whole thing started as a leaky radiator which led on to a leaky transmission cooler which led to stuffed hydraulic hoses which led to a filter that couldn't be removed which led to the base plate being removed which led to new gaskets that had to be cut which led to the hoses being of a size that made guys who sell them to say "nah mate they aren't made in that size - wot the [email protected]#$%^ is it off? Oh yeah, that explains it!!" Which led to me learning how to mould HP hose which led to removing the electro-valve which I thought I'd stuffed on the way back in which led to me having to refit the actual valve to the base plate which led to a panic call replied to with great thanks by David Southwell who supplied a side plate which led to a bolt shearing off in the housing which led to finding a wire that had been broken and had a dodgy solder job done on it which led to finding a plug that the wires run in to which was swimming in oil & corrosion which led to me falling off the creeper and doing my back in which led to a trip to the bone cruncher which led to instructions to not work under cars or do anything else as silly for a while during which time one of my sons cleaned up the garage which led to screams like "where's all the bolts and bits gone to?" which led to a domestic during which time the balance of the Total "T" dripped out all over the floor carefully missing the containers placed exactly where it was dripping which led to me getting covered in $#!t every time I got under the car and a refusal by volunteer son to get covered in the same substance.
    The good news is; it goes and now drops into gear like a new one. Best it has ever been so "perhaps" it was worth the trouble after all.
    You've got no idea how many times I thought to myself "geez I wish I'd have just dropped a can of Barr's Leaks in the radiator"
    Took a few pics of work in progress which may be of help to others who decide to embark on the same journey including the tricks I learnt on how to fit 1/2" (12.7mm) high pressure thich walled hose to fittings designed for 15mm moulded hoses. I have a site in mind and will post if it's OK to post them there.
    I suppose at least I can now say that I've done one; got no ambitions to do another. :p

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  12. #12
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,178
    so it all went well then....

    Come on Alan, admit it you loved every minute sliding around in muck and dirt sheering bolts, throw in a bit of a back problem, you've had a ball.. and kept all that fun to yourself adds cred to my post in 'pet hates' 'it's gotta be a labour of love'.

    Seriously congrats you must be thrilled, it's a greater achievement when you have had to source and manufacture parts, good on ya.

    Now whats this I here about you wanting to take an angle grinder to one of our treasured CXs and turn it into a six wheel ute????? Thats what happens to folk that spends too much time with them hippies

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Dťesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Dťesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Dťesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248
    Hi Alan,

    I'd really like to know how you moulded the HP hose. Is it easy?

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    Stuey,

    So easy you won't believe it. The trick is it must be the red coloured hose to which you ad heat but using a "cooler" type of flame until it turns a bright orange.
    Spray the end of the fitting with silicone spray then hit the black internal lining with the flame for a few seconds and then push into position & leave until cool. When cool you'll find that you can see the exact profile of the fitting it has been pushed on to, has returned to its original colour and can be removed & refitted and held with a jubillee clip & will NEVER leak.
    This hose they claim can withstand petrol, oil, ATF and LHM but they have alweays said that it either fits or it doesn't and the number of times I've bought it only to find it was "just that bit too small" and had to buy something else I've lost count of; so no more I can now make it fit (within reason) I think the main problem Citroen wise is that our hoses are obviously metric; and odd sizes at that, and these hoses are imperial.
    It's not all that cheap at $15+ per metre but instead of the inconvenience of waiting forever for the genuine part as well as the cost for same, it is a good alternative. One water hose for the sons CX a couple of years ago cost over $135 so worth looking at

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,383
    Hi Alan,

    you have no idea how good it makes me feel to read that story. I was sure it was only me that has problems like that.

    I've had an intermitant headlight on my CX, low beam keeps going on & off. I've been trying to restrain myself from fixing it for weeks. You see once I start looking at that wiring around the battery i KNOW I'll be opening a pandora's box of problems. I'm sure I'll just start with yep, look at that, it's just a dirty connection, shhhiiiittt, look at that wire there, and bloody hell that connector just there is dodgy... I'd finish about a month later at the trailer plug after pulling the dash, interior, motor??, fuel tank etc, etc, etc....

    Don't do it Shane, Don't do it!! Let the light bug the hell out of you LET IT!!!!!.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,822
    Very good Alan, now just for the excersize work out how many hours you spent on it and charge yourself $50 per hour, this is a position I often end up in and the customer says but I only had a leaking radiator.
    Shane, it is my firm belief that it is impossible for an old car not to have some kind of problem or two. As soon as you fix one another jumps up to take its place so my theory is, if you can live with a problem don't fix it because the one which takes its place could be a real pain.

    David.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  17. #17
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    David,

    Can't and never have argued with that logic. The point that I keep trying to make (allbeit not very clearly at times) is that anyone who owns an "exotic" or specialised type of car HAS to be prepared to do some DIY on it themselves otherwise you must end up with an unreliable vehicle if for no other reason that those you have stated. *Car comes in to get job #1 done and conscientious repairer sees job #2 and tells customer it will cost an extra $50 to do; starts & finds job #3 which seems small until job #4 turns up and is VERY expensive at which point customer is sure that the repairer is having a lend of him/her* no problem David; ex Tradesman - been there done that, know the territory well :p
    Gets scarey when you are constantly redoing the work a professional charged in excess of $50 an hour to do and the previous owner wasn't into DIY so I get the worst of both worlds
    With the c-matic though, I do believe that I am within a days work and $400 in bits to make it 100% reliable and would then pass any inspection.
    The other problem is of course that as you get older you also get slower so paying me $50 an hour would be an expensive exercise these days to do anything

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,769
    To think I asked a question about buying a Xantia before reading this saga!!!!!

    That "saga" must be more work in total than I have needed to do on my daily use R8 since about 1988 when I put a sleeve kit in!

    However, a Xantia with 18000 km from new ought to be better, oughtn't it? Oughtn't it.........

    John W
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,383
    Hi,

    well I've never heard of anything that commonly goes wrong with Xantias... I'm subscribed to the Xantia list & about the only real thing that I've heard happen is the air conditioner fan stops working (happened to my mums). Just grabbed some power from the cigarette lighter for it.

    The only time I've ever heard of engine/gbox problems is in the floods over in the UK. ie: Don't drive you HDI turbo diesel through deep (probably read DEEP!!!) puddles. The air pickup is a little low...

    Xantias are an immensly strong car due to the incredible torsional strength of the structure (required for the activa suspension). To get some real opinions of what people might think try the Xantia lists at egoups. Mums is a 2litre auto, not bad to drive but I'm not a big fan of automatics. A 5spd manual would be a very nice car.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  20. #20
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,769
    Thanks Shane - I'll follow up on it and see where we get. How does the price sound to you? The car really is like new.

    Cheers

    John
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •