Wheel alignment specs for BX 16v
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Default Wheel alignment specs for BX 16v

    Does anyone have anything I can hand to a tyre mechanic?

    I'm toying with the idea of changing all four tyres even though they're fairly new. G-Grids on a 16V just don't work. I've got a slight suspicion this is because they are Japanese.

    So I'm off to find something new, and give the thing a total alignment.

    Apparently the height at the front was raised and so will have this corrected at next service, should I get alignment done before or after?

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    Ta

    (Haven't driven it for a week or so I took it for a wee strap tonight, geez it is cranky when cold.......but nice when everything is warmed up)

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hang on,

    isn't this the car that was charged regually for 'height corrections'. How the hell could they be wrong

    I suggest buying a set of cheap car ramps & setting the heights yourself, it really is very simple (and CAN NOT BE DONE WITHOUT RAMPS or a 4pole hoist/pit).

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    Does anyone have anything I can hand to a tyre mechanic?

    I'm toying with the idea of changing all four tyres even though they're fairly new. G-Grids on a 16V just don't work. I've got a slight suspicion this is because they are Japanese.

    So I'm off to find something new, and give the thing a total alignment.

    Apparently the height at the front was raised and so will have this corrected at next service, should I get alignment done before or after?

    Ta

    (Haven't driven it for a week or so I took it for a wee strap tonight, geez it is cranky when cold.......but nice when everything is warmed up)
    'Cit' homepage:
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Haha I *think* the previous owner requested the height set a little higher for a trip out west, or something.

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    That's simply crazy, you'll acheive the same by simply lifting the lever a little bit.

    If the car is at the wrong height (front or back) it has a dramatic affect on the way the car rides and handles, so it is certainly worth having checked.

    If it's not scrubbing tires I wouldn't let anyone touch the alignment.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    I'm toying with the idea of changing all four tyres even though they're fairly new. G-Grids on a 16V just don't work. I've got a slight suspicion this is because they are Japanese.
    I'd say that's your answer there, buddy. Get rid of those silly Japanese tyres
    Regards,

    Simon

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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    Does anyone have anything I can hand to a tyre mechanic?

    I'm toying with the idea of changing all four tyres even though they're fairly new. G-Grids on a 16V just don't work. I've got a slight suspicion this is because they are Japanese.

    So I'm off to find something new, and give the thing a total alignment.

    Apparently the height at the front was raised and so will have this corrected at next service, should I get alignment done before or after?

    Ta

    (Haven't driven it for a week or so I took it for a wee strap tonight, geez it is cranky when cold.......but nice when everything is warmed up)
    I have had a set of G-Grid Serires 2 on my 16v for the last year and i find that they are sweet. I cant see any problem with them at all, they do perform better when warm thats for sure. What dont you like about the tires macquered? Im just curious, ive been thinking of buying another set after the ones ive got now run out....
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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  7. #7
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I could stand corrected on this, but I think the wheel alignment has to be set at about 2 degrees toe out. Not as is the norm; Toe IN.
    The reason I am told is that if set with a toe in, as the components start to wear, you tend towards torque steering under accelleration.
    Have you got a service manual for your car Brendan?
    If not, check out Bob Smiths site & see if the specs are there.

    http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  8. #8
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    Haynes manual recommends
    Front Toe-out 0 - 3 mm
    Rear Toe-in 1.6 - 5 mm

    Chance

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hmm,

    I wonder if the Haynes book of fairy tales is right ?? I though most FWD cars run that amount of toe in, not toe out ??

    It could be worth getting some to look up a factory manual for us

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    As I said before, I'm pretty positive that the wheel alignment is toe out on these just as apparently it is on 2CVs.

    I would suggest before you go down the new tyre/("shit why did I waste my money on them") track, that you start by getting the suspension checked properly by someone who knows what they are about.
    Tyres to me on a Cit at any time have a role to play; keeping the rims off the bitumen & precious little else. Think about it; a Cit is the only car I know that can be getting thrown around and driven like hell and suddenly have someone flag you down to tell you you've got a flat tyre or you stop to try to discover what that black rubber looking stuff is flying off a front wheel & discover it's the tyre.
    There are several things, including wrong alignment that can cause handling problems. Most common is wrong or flat spheres. Another is incorrect height and incorrect calibration between front & rear suspension height.
    To check the height there's several ways including "X" number of fingers between the top of the tyre and the guard arch. When I tried this method I found it was out to buggery so I must have very skinny fingers. The actual dimension I think (subject to confirmation) is about 150 or 160mm between the underside of the crossmembers (both front & rear ones) to the ground.
    To adjust is really quite simple but ramps, a hoist or a pit is a MUST; no compromises, as you'll kill yourself literally otherwise.
    Firstly set the adjustment arms to their correct settings; these are the rods connected to the height adjustment lever inside the car. 7mm from the front of the slide; 5 from the rear. Then with the engine running and the car set at normal drive height (inside the car) slacken the clamp to the sway bar and swivel on the sway bar to adjust. Recheck height. Repeat the same at the rear although usually you'll find once the interconnecting rods are correct and the sway bar adjustment done at the front that the rear rarely needs touching unless of course this was fiddled with too.
    Spheres with too great a capacity and which allow too much downwards travel can also cause problems due to allowing too much weight to come off the rear wheels and can on occasions cause tailwagging under brakes.
    My suggestion would be to get the suspension set correctly, spheres checked for size and pressure and a wheel alignment done before going any further. What tyre pressures are you running? I gind about 34 psi front and 30 rear is about spot on for my set up but in the past I've had to alter that due to different tyres to get optimum performance.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  11. #11
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    Brendan,

    A couple of things that may shed some light on matters. When I took the car to Tom Dolan to get the rear bearings done he said that the rear spheres were the wrong size (from a CX) but the right pressure.
    City Auto Care raised the ride height because the exhaust was fouling somewhere at the rear when going over bumps after they re-aligned the exhaust after the rear bracket was rewelded. I took it elsewhere and had the exhaust fixed properly then took it back to City Auto Care and had them reset the ride height to what was supposed to be the correct height as it did not drive well and I was not interested in the bodged repair approach...

    Chris

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Chris,

    Thanks for that! I didn't know what the right story was about the suspension height, I was just going off what GM said. So you are saying it is sitting at the right height at the moment? It looks a little high to me.

    I've got the day off work tomorrow (for the first time in a LONG time, this is why I've not been able to do any work on the car) and am getting replacement mufflers on.

    Al + Shane: I'll see if I can find some ramps do I can do the work myself. It sounds pretty easy. Space is hard to find around this place so I might have to get Tom Dolan to do it (he said he'd do it for nothing anyway)

    Al: I do have a service manual! I didn't even think to look in it, what a dolt! All the specs are in there. I like the toe out bit, probably explains the awesome turn in it has.

    Sproose: I guess the G'Grids are OK for commuting, but this is my toy. The braking in the wet is just.....embarrasing. I've driven on G'grids on other cars too and have formed the same opinion.

  13. #13
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    Brendan,

    The ride height was/is correct. There was a very noticeable deterioration in the handling (and to a small extent the ride) when the suspension was set slightly higher, that was why I had it corrected. The tires were OK as I recall. I think they have quite a stiff sidewall which helped the handling but also made them louder over bumps which in turn gave a sensation of harder riding suspension. I drove a couple of Mk1 BX 16valves in NZ, both had Michelin tires which seemed to work pretty well. It was a while ago and I think they were MXV3's or similar..
    Strangely too I recall that the recommended tire pressures for your car (on the label in the drivers door frame) were for a lower pressure at the front than the back. The norm is usually higher at the front than the back in FWD cars, have you tried different tire pressures?

    Did you sort out the overheating issues?

    Chris

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    I finally got around to getting another alignment done. I'd had it done a couple of times in the past year and since I'd replaced my lower arm bushes I figured it was time time to get it straightened again.

    After taking it to numerous BTC's/Beaurepaires/Bob Janes and finding that none of them could fit their laser alignment tools to the rear wheels I looked for someone with better equipment

    I found Marks & Wallings in Artarmon have this schmick machine that does the alignment with flashy lights and video camera's. Quite an impressive machine. They do all the work for the local Merc, Jag and Honda dealerships, as well as TCCA Motorsport over the road.

    They found my front axle toe was indeed out of whack, just as I thought;

    L: 0.6
    R: -0.6

    And after;

    L: -1.6
    R: -1.6

    I know these specs are a little outside of the specs in the manual, but I wanted a nice turn-in. It had been a little sloppy in the past.

    Marks and Wallings were friendly enough. I'd recommend them.

  15. #15
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Um.....not real sure yet. I only drove back the few km's back to North Sydney so I can't really tell. At least it tracks straight now, instead of wandering to the right.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Icon5 Wheel Alignment Perth

    Great thread - quick question anyone in Perth that can do proper wheel alignment on BX 16V in Perth inlight of all that has been said above as I am finding that I'm get tyre scrub on outer of front tyres even with high pressure ~40psi front 38 rear seems to give best grip. maybe I'm just hammering the car around corners a bit fast but you cann't help it on our twisty little country roads away from the thought police (I thought the camera wouldn't be hidding around that corner ) but seriously any recommendations thanks

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