GS Driveshaft questions
  • Help
Results 1 to 17 of 17
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By DoubleChevron
  • 2 Post By pottsy
  • 2 Post By pottsy

Thread: GS Driveshaft questions

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default GS Driveshaft questions

    OK, first a preamble.

    GiSelle and I went for a first drive today. I obtained a Permit from Vicroads and chatted to Mr Shannons and upgraded my insurance from "Laid Up" to "On the Road".

    First stop was the Servo where she got a few hundred ml of Fuel Doctor followed by a tankful of Mr BP's finest. On the way there we had a few coughing and sputtering issues. After 20 odd kM these have all but disappeared. Still a little hesitant on light throttle but I reckon I can sort that out down the track, and it may need more kM to clean out completely.

    Gearbox is sweet. Synchro feels good. Clutch feels strong. Motor smooth and quiet.

    Now the bad news. We have some serious clunks and grumbles from the turny bits up the front. It changes a little on cornering, and varies between "on load" and on the overrun.

    From many years of dealing with FWD cars I reckon the driveshafts are a bit suss, perhaps particularly the triaxe assemblies inboard.

    Back on the hoist and with the handbrake off I can move the disc about 6mm or so back and forth (rotationally). I suspect this is Not Good!

    I have a spare pair of driveshafts, which at first blush appear to have acceptable amounts of movement in the CVs either end.

    The manual is decidedly unhelpful when it comes to separating joints from axle, and I'm forming the opinion that perhaps this is just Not Done?

    I'll strip the spare shafts as far as possible and inspect them. I have new boots for both sides so at the least they'll come in off the bench.

    Questions are as follows:
    1. How much movement is acceptable in the Tri-Axe assembly?
    2. Are the needle rollers and /or housings available or do I need to source some locally if I can?
    3. Can the outer CV joints be removed and replaced independent of the shaft assembly?
    4. Is there anything glaringly obvious I'm missing? (Quite a possibility)

    Looking forward to resolving this issue and having a proper drive of this little beast.

    Cheers, Pottsy.

    Advertisement
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    Hi Pottsy,

    Yes the outer rezeppa CV joints can be removed from the driveshaft, the driveshaft is held in the right place by a snap ring. I used to have to hammer them off but these days there is a tool that does most of the work of removing them. You take the black bit off the frame and insert the driveshaft end in through the ring. The black bit goes back on and clamps onto the driveshaft so that there is some thread between the ring and the joint. Put the driveshaft nut back on the bolt and keep tightening until the snap ring compresses and releases the joint off the shaft - at least that is the theory.

    The balls in the Tri-ax joints do have lots of tiny needle roller spindles between the balls and their shafts. It's best to keep all the balls in place when you take the tri-ax off - easy to say but no so easy to do - a vertical separation might work best. The wear is usually on the ball contact surface of the tri-ax itself. Wear on one side of the contact track gives you vibrations on acceleration, wear on the other side gives you vibration on braking as all braking goes through the driveshaft.

    I would be having a look at all your tri-ax joints and using the two with least wear just to get you going. If you are taking the driveshaft out, make sure you have the top suspension arm jacked up to maximum height, or the inner joint will not fit through the hole and will separate with balls and spindles falling everywhere.

    Cheers, Ken

    CV Seperator.jpg
    Last edited by Ken W; 13th January 2020 at 03:29 PM.

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,622

    Default

    Don't let the bastard things fall apart .......... You'll be picking up bloody needles to the end of time (guess how I know this!).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    forumnoreason likes this.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,524

    Default

    I presume you have eliminated noisy wheel bearings and loose wheel nuts?

    Cheers

    Alec

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Thanks guys.

    I'll know about nuts and bearings once I jack it all up, but I checked for bearing play when I did the ball joints and lower arm bushes, and it was all OK then. Not to say it hasn't freed up, or that I got wussy on the nuts. Would be nice if that was all it was!

    I've got one of the spares shafts apart inasmuch as taking the old knackered boots off. The Rzeppa appears OK, no more movement than I'd normally expect.

    The tri-axe had already partly discombobulated inside the boot and one of the units had fallen off. I've carefully recovered the needles from inside the tri-axe and the boot. Can anyone tell me how many needle rollers they should have? I've recovered 26 so far I think.

    Looks like I need to create a tool for the removal of the outers.

    The fun never stops!

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Further to that, I've just ordered one of those tools from eBay. Couldn't even buy the materials for what it costs.

    If it does the job, it's worth it. I've always used a rubber hammer on Mini CV joints, but this tool is just damn clever!

    Cheers, Pottsy.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    There always seems to be one less than there should be. I reckon it is to allow some free play in the race. Why don't you do a statistical analysis of how many there should be. 4 joints by 3 balls each gives you a sample size of 12.

    Cheers, Ken

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    And the magic number is.......28!

    That's how many needle rollers each pin has and, wonder of wonders, I've recovered them all.

    Next question, is there supposed to be a gasket between the tri-axe unit and the metal backing plate? These have been silasticked at some stage.

    Easy enough to make a gasket before crimping the plate back on I guess.

    Pictures will come once I get motivated, just not tonight!

    It's now beer o'clock.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Ashburton
    Posts
    222

    Default

    I can’t recall a gasket and certainly no gasket goo

    dave did this on his gsa and he may be able to walk you through. Ken is right though. There are less needle bearings than you expect when they are all in

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    Why make a tool when you can buy one for $20 delivered.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CV-Joint...frcectupt=true

    Cheers, Ken

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Ken, see post 6. Totally agree.

    That's exactly the one I've ordered.

    Assuming it's strong enough it'll serve for Mini CVs as well.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    OK. small update. I've dismantled the second spare driveshaft and it appears to have been unmolested so I'm taking it as the pattern.

    There is indeed a paper gasket between the tri-axe casting and the cover plate.

    There's also supposed to be a washer between the "ball" and the shaft. Molested one had only one of these, unmolested 3.

    And definitely 28 needles per assembly, and yes, I've got them all! (unless I drop them on the floor!)

    Having now jacked, de-wheeled and investigated I can confirm that first of all the RH outer CV is toast. Strangely this didn't appear bad when I checked over the front end, but maybe a few kM under the belt freed it up enough to rattle.

    And Armidillo, sort of a good call. One of the left hand nuts must have nipped up with the oval spacer askew, as it was loose when I checked it this time. You'd reckon after all these years of Pugs and Citroens with the weird wheel nut washers I'd know to check. But them's the breaks. Could have been part of the noise certainly.

    Cheers for now, Pottsy.
    Armidillo and Bruce H like this.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default It's Non Stop Fun here at the Bureau!

    Just bringing you all up to date, as I'm sure there are those of you hanging on my every utterance! (NOT!)

    I've now re-vamped one of my spare driveshafts.

    It's been stripped, cleaned, checked, re-packed (with grease) and re-booted with new booties.

    The outer CV on this one is almost play-free, so I'd like to think it's going to work OK. Inner came up beautifully, and I didn't even have any needle rollers left over! (No-one more surprised than me!)

    Apart from suspecting the RH outer CV was toast, the other reason for targeting the RH side at first was that there was a tear in the inner boot, so to pre-empt the RWC bloke jumping on it I figured I should bite the projectile and change it.

    What a fun job this is! I removed everything in the way and jacked up the other side so the top arm was as far up as it would go. Then I remembered I'd put new bump stops in so pulling that out gave me enough poofteenths extra to be able to weasel the old and greasy bit through the barely adequate hole.

    And getting through the aforementioned hole to the bolts took a 3/8" drive socket and two extensions, turned by an Aldi rattle gun. You can barely see the bolt heads past the bulge of the boot, but tenacity prevailed.

    So the RH driveshaft is now relatively pristine, and the LH one doesn't seem too bad so I'll drive the car again tomorrow and see what's what.

    Incidentally, I've been doing some research via the interweb and, while I still need to do some more exacting and careful measuring of the relevant bits, I'm coming to the tentative conclusion that a replacement outer CV may be readily available here in Oz.

    So far I'm going by spline diameters and count, but time will tell if I'm right.

    That's be good, as I'd rather spend my motoring dollars here than overseas if possible.

    Cheers for now, Pottsy.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Pleased to report that not only is the front end now pretty much noise and rattle free, I've even booked the car in for a first RWC test tomorrow!

    Went for a drive before booking her in and she's an absolute delight. Only possible glitch is that occasionally one can beat the synchro into third, but it might have been me getting lazy on the clutch pedal.

    Motor is willing and smoke free once warmed up. Brakes are powerful and smooth. All good.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Bruce H and Ken W like this.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,127

    Default

    Synchros on GS are brilliant, until they are not. The first sign of wear is being able to beat the synchro on a normally paced 1&2 count, change motion . Pausing a little longer in neutral helps as does a complete refresh of gear oil with Castrol VMX80. F type trans fluid also works well, as this is what works in the C-Matic version ( same gearbox with a torque converter).
    Cheers Gerry

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Northern Suburbs
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Thanks Gerry. I'm running Castrol VMX-80 with Nulon G70 added.

    As I said, it may have been me being lazy on the clutch. I haven't checked the adjustment of the cable yet.

    I'll keep an eye on it though.

    Cheers, Pottsy.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Current project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    624

    Default

    My experience with my GS years ago when the triax started to seize on a long trip, is that the grease can centrifuge out of the bearing cups. On that occasion, I caught it before any serious damage had been done & packed it with what I had at the time, Teflon grease plus a little gear oil to keep it liquid. Worked a treat. I really think that it is a good idea to add a little gear oil with the grease [ Molly ] when packing the joint so the cups won't dry out.
    Richard

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •