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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Default Troubleshoot, D just stopped?

    Hi all,
    Sitting on side of road troubleshooting why the 69 ID 19 stopped?
    It's a warm day but temp gauge reading only 90 C,
    Cruising along on slight uphill stretch, and just no power, like a no fuel feeling?
    Lifted the bonnet, nothing seems disconnected, seems to be fuel in filter.
    Can very faintly here battery sizzling? From charging, not deformed or anything, Car has power and cranks but no start.?
    I'm thinking fuel starving? But not sure why?.
    Any tips
    Steve

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    it will not have either spark or fuel. if there is petrol at the accelerator pump, you'll probably have no spark ( coil died in the heat ). Wiggle all of the fuses first before you go any further.

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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Seems like fuel, I can get it to just start and if pump the throttle lots it just barely runs just, but no real revs. So dirty fuel, dirty filter, block screen ( Weber? Fuel pump is about 4 years old?
    Guess I will try to swap out filter clean screen and then what with the carb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Frog View Post
    Hi all,
    Sitting on side of road troubleshooting why the 69 ID 19 stopped?
    It's a warm day but temp gauge reading only 90 C,
    Cruising along on slight uphill stretch, and just no power, like a no fuel feeling?
    Lifted the bonnet, nothing seems disconnected, seems to be fuel in filter.
    Can very faintly here battery sizzling? From charging, not deformed or anything, Car has power and cranks but no start.?
    I'm thinking fuel starving? But not sure why?.
    Any tips
    Steve
    Possibly a vapour lock? Unusual but not unheard of in a D - let the engine cool, pour cold water over the fuel pump and carbi?
    Let us know how you get on

    Cheers
    Chris
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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Gauze in carb appears clean, filter looks filthy and the element seems to move around in the clear body, so I'm thinking it has failed and allowed crap into the carb. Put in new filter seems to be plenty of flow with hose off carb. Undid top of carb to inspect and gasket is buggered. Will have to get it towed.
    Thanks for the help.
    Ps.I did let it cool and poured cold water over pump and carb but no joy.
    Steve

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    UFO
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    The old rule may apply.

    If you think it's fuel it will be electrical,
    If you think it's electrical it will be fuel.

    My money is on electrical. Ballast resistor or coil.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Did you wiggle all of the fuses inside there housings You would be surprised how often this will get a CX/DS running again ...... until it happens again.
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    COL
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    Have you pulled a spark plug out and hooked it back up to the plug lead and cranked engine to confirm you have spark.
    Regards Col

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    check the gap of the dizy, quite often they can close


    Quote Originally Posted by Big Frog View Post
    Hi all,
    Sitting on side of road troubleshooting why the 69 ID 19 stopped?
    It's a warm day but temp gauge reading only 90 C,
    Cruising along on slight uphill stretch, and just no power, like a no fuel feeling?
    Lifted the bonnet, nothing seems disconnected, seems to be fuel in filter.
    Can very faintly here battery sizzling? From charging, not deformed or anything, Car has power and cranks but no start.?
    I'm thinking fuel starving? But not sure why?.
    Any tips
    Steve

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Thanks for help.
    Got the local tilt tray to collect the car and drop home. As noted the carb gasket on inspection is in more than one piece, that may not have been the problem for sure but made what ever the problem was irrelevant. And it was 38 C standing in the sun so now the car is in the garage I can finish the troubleshooting.
    The tow went well, the car had settled into the exhaust, it was on very unlevel ground on the side of a dirt road. I cranked it till it lifted and the guy got the tray right down under the front. In hindsight I should have taken the plugs out to make the cranking easier.
    Will report back when I identify the problem. As far as the gasket is concerned I have a carb kit in a box somewhere I'm sure.
    Thanks again
    Steve

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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Small update, just had a chance to put a ohm meter on the coil and Ballast resistor (with all leads disconnected) both returned a reading of 1.9 ohms each.
    So this seems normal, but I guess this could be different when everything is hot?

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Once fixed, consider an electric fuel pump....

    I've just had a prolonged troubleshoot of poor running on the Renault R8 and concluded it was a mix of several neglected items - really much the same system as the DS when you think about it, just different versions of the same stuff. Changing the coil was the one thing that maybe improved things but I'm not convinced (and it doesn't have a ballast resistor). However, the only thing that has ever stopped me dead on a hot day has been vapour lock after restarting at the shops. My fuel pump is "avec levier", the reason I don't have an electric pump myself.
    JohnW

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    Blocked idling Jet?
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Hi All,
    Thanks for suggestions - have checked there is a good spark when cranked.

    Had the battery on charge overnight as it got run down cranking to lift the suspension for the tow and push into garage.
    I take your point JohnW about an accumulation of things. Some history, this engine was overhauled a few years ago by Denton Christie and freshened up with new sleeves, pistons, time chain and so on. When the block was returned just about everything was replace new eg Starter, overhauled hydraulic pump, new fuel pump, overhauled steering by Roger Parker, new coil, new resistor along those lines.
    The only thing that wasn't overhauled was the carb (Weber), hence the fragile nature of the gasket when the top was lifted off when I looked at it. (And why I have a kit on the shelf). Regarding a vapor lock, I did cool it all down as suggested by Green Blood and nothing changed. As a side note my dad had a Morris Minor when I was a kid and it suffered vapor lock on real hot days and it had an electric pump, but I think it was located on top of the motor maybe on the firewall?, not a great spot to be away from heat. It would click like crazy.

    Another part of the story, whether related or not, I filled the car the other day from the local Caltex and there was a tanker discharging. I had not noticed it when I pulled in, so i stopped filling, as I had always been told to be wary of the turbulent filling stirring up the sediment in the bulk tank. As noted the fuel filter appears to be full of crap and may have failed.

    So I will lift off the carb and inspect and replace the gaskets etc from the kit I have and see if there is crap in there, check jets etc.
    P.S. It also runs a 123 ignition, so no contacts to gum up.

    Don't think it will be running again until next year!

    Steve
    Last edited by Big Frog; 31st December 2019 at 04:02 PM.

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    COL
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    Another thing you can do is tip a small amount of fuel down the carbie throat, then try to start the car.

    If the car fires and runs for about 15 seconds you know you will have a fuel problem.
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    Regards Col

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    Check filter in petrol tank , if car has been sitting around chances are that is your problem
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myourd View Post
    Check filter in petrol tank , if car has been sitting around chances are that is your problem
    Had this problem with a CX!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Petrol tanker in forecourt, don't fill. Have had that experience , had to drain tank , clean lines etc. no fuel should be sold when a tanker is present IMO.
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    Why's that? I've never heard of that before, but I'd like to know!


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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Have a look at this for the gist of the issue
    https://youtu.be/ik0VNBHcnMw

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    Very interesting, thanks.


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    With a standard distributor, you have contacts between the cap and the rotor, and of course the contact breakers. With 123, you still have a rotor and cap and those contacts need to be maintained as with a normal distributor.

    In terms of crud and crap in the fuel, the problem is very possibly 'closer to home' and any stirring up is likely to be of the rust in your tank when you re-fuel.

    rusty tank.jpg
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Have you simply pulled a lead and checked for spark ........... and pumped the throttle to see if the accelerator pump is squirting yet It'll be interesting to find out what the issue was
    UFO likes this.
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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    oh boy.
    Sorry about the delay in getting back regards sorting this problem, short notice travel cross country and family issues have intervened.
    Yesterday I got to progress things and then today has been a write off.

    As noted above yes there is a spark when the plug is removed and plug body shorted on the engine.
    Yes there is fuel visibly being squirted down the venturi closest to the head (carb is a weber).

    Also as noted above the carb gasket was torn, crumbled when the top of carby was removed to inspect, so I figure it would be best to remove the carby from the manifold to replace the gasket and inspect fully without the chance of dropping stuff into the engine bay, and the carby isn't going to work with a bung gasket.

    So I removed the air cleaner , so I could remove the rocker cover, so I could reach the nuts holding the carb down.
    And this is what I saw, attached image of rocker area.
    head.pdf
    Green coolant, not emulsified, so just fresh, and the bolt head, which is the center most head bolt, that is circled in coolant, is snapped off.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Bugger. Good you had a look. Not sure why a sudden small head gasket leak would stop it dead though? Rough running and loss of power. it's all nice and clean otherwise....

    Good luck!!
    JohnW

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