Xantia struts
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Thread: Xantia struts

  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default Xantia struts

    What a fun day.

    I've made up some retaining brackets to ensure the struts never go for an excersion through the bonnet



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    They just bolt to the strut mountings:





    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane/xan...trutretip2.jpg

    Everytime I check the oil level I'll just give them a shake and ensure there not under tension. If ever I see the legs have straightened (which means they'll be probably be touching the hydraulic line to the strut), that will mean the strut rubbers have let go.



    While I was playing with the struts, I put the car on high and pulled the dust cover back



    I then greased the piston 3 times after moving the car from high 2 low about a dozen times.



    The struts used to bind and the car would take about 1minute to drop the last centimeter if you put it on 'low', it would also slowly creak upto high if you put the car on high. Strangly it didn't bind in the intermediate positions that are used out on the road (remember this car has anti-sink valves, so the height extremeties are rarely used).

    I also changed the oil, guess what this idiot did. New engine oil & filter, I also decided at each oil change I'd change the 2litres of ATF that could be drained (rather than 50,000kms or whatever they suggest...). I'm topping up the AFT after changing, hmmm this brand of ATF is a very dark red.... Start the car put it in park, fill some more..... Hmm a bit of sh!t just flowed into the funnel. HOLLY SHIT I MUST BE POURING IN OLD USED OIL I do a mad sprint for the ignition key and then dive back under and whip the drain plug back out.

    Gee's I hope like hell I haven't done any damage pouring a heap of crap into the automatic Then it's a mad rush to Big W for another 5litre bottle of ATF (and a permanent marker for the shed so I can write USED OIL across containers when I pour the used oil into them ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 6th June 2004 at 07:59 PM.
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Jeez mate, after doing something proactive and seemingly intelligent you know how to bring yourself back down again

    I imagine your little bracket could save a few xantia and xm bonnets.

    Dave


  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Well I just took the Xantia for a spin...

    It's riding much better at the front since greasing them (even though the struts didn't appear to be binding). I fitted the new H/A sphere to the back that a friend had bought out from the UK. It's MUCH better now, it's soft, but not to hard in the back. I just took it for a spin around a twisty bit of road. This car screams for more power and a proper gearbox. Through the twisty bit of road I reckon my CX GTi turbo would have trouble keeping up

    It rides better than my CX GTi (though nowhere near a well as a standard CX), rides better than a BX, handles at least as well as a BX around low speed corners and probably better on high speed corners. These are going to turn out to be an even more under rated car than the BX. Anyone wanna let me take an Activa for a drive

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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    You've got me concerned now. How common is it for the strut rubbers to let go?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    It is fairly common Peter, we have had one go on our 97 Xantia already, caught it before it went through the bonnet though


    Dave


  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,

    I've seen a couple of sister cars to my Xantia on the Fowles auction web site with strut through the bonnet ... I think Xantia bonnets will soon be a very sought after item

    You wouldn't mind them going if they didn't take the bloody bonnet with them

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Yeah, its a bit of a worry isn't it. Dad was just lucky that his went slowly and he noticed the difference in height before it completely went bang.



    Dave


  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    You've got me concerned now. How common is it for the strut rubbers to let go?
    They are probably all going to fail sooner or later Peter - particularly if they have been let run with flat spheres for any length of time.

    I would be saying that every second timing belt change you should be looking seriously at strut mounts. XMs seem to be worse, as they are heavier, and I would think that diesel or V6 Xantias would be in the same boat.

    Paul
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  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Peter,

    just keep an eye on the Fowles auction sites. whenever you see a Xantia looking like this (yes I know it's an XM, it's the only photo I could find in my 30second search). You'll know it's due to strut failure.




    UGLY isn't it

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Hi Peter,

    just keep an eye on the Fowles auction sites. whenever you see a Xantia looking like this (yes I know it's an XM, it's the only photo I could find in my 30second search). You'll know it's due to strut failure.




    UGLY isn't it

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Shane,

    Thanks for this. How many km has yours done?

    A second question: the attachment bolt head for the strap doesn't look huge, but I guess big enough - what's on the OTHER side of the panelling to stop it pulling through, presuming the failure happens when you hit a bump?

    Ta

    JohnW

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi John,

    it's metal strapping, probably about 2mm X 30mm. It may stretch a little (or should I say straighten those bends slightly, but it certainly will not break. The 'box' that encloses the strut top is 2mm x 10mm angle iron. The metal is basically just off cuts and scrap I had in the shed. So the brackets cost nothing other than a few hours time to knock up (I like value for money --best value being free ).

    It's bolted down to the strut mounting bolts, so no it certainly shouldn't pull though.

    The biggest concern is if the 'legs' straighten enough so that they allow the strut to touch the bonnet. (there's not much room there). Though bending the strapping to the exact shape work hardens it considerably. You can't use straight runs for the 'legs' as they have to bend out around the hydraulic lines. If the strut does let go the legs will probably press against the hydraulic lines, but hey it should be safe for the drive home, and it's better than losing hydraulic lines and bonnet and requiring a flat tray to get home

    Mines done 130,000 kms, 10,000 of which Ang has done in the last 2months since I purchased it (which is probably more than it's annual milage for the last 5years ).

    However is the strut failures milage related, or age related, or sphere condition related, or weather/heat conditions etc, etc, etc.... I just wanted to be safe than sorry. Even if I fit new strut mounts eventually, I'll still leave those brackets there just in case.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Hi John,

    it's metal strapping, probably about 2mm X 30mm. It may stretch a little (or should I say straighten those bends slightly, but it certainly will not break. The 'box' that encloses the strut top is 2mm x 10mm angle iron. The metal is basically just off cuts and scrap I had in the shed. So the brackets cost nothing other than a few hours time to knock up (I like value for money --best value being free ).

    It's bolted down to the strut mounting bolts, so no it certainly shouldn't pull though.

    The biggest concern is if the 'legs' straighten enough so that they allow the strut to touch the bonnet. (there's not much room there). Though bending the strapping to the exact shape work hardens it considerably. You can't use straight runs for the 'legs' as they have to bend out around the hydraulic lines. If the strut does let go the legs will probably press against the hydraulic lines, but hey it should be safe for the drive home, and it's better than losing hydraulic lines and bonnet and requiring a flat tray to get home

    Mines done 130,000 kms, 10,000 of which Ang has done in the last 2months since I purchased it (which is probably more than it's annual milage for the last 5years ).

    However is the strut failures milage related, or age related, or sphere condition related, or weather/heat conditions etc, etc, etc.... I just wanted to be safe than sorry. Even if I fit new strut mounts eventually, I'll still leave those brackets there just in case.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Thanks Shane,

    I'd agree that they shouldn't break or pull through!! Thanks for the information.

    Heaven knows when these things fail!! Might just be variability in rubber when made too. I'd go first for sphere condition I guess - pretty nasty shock loadings can't help. Messrs Citroen should be hauled over the coals for this one whatever the cause.

    Do you know if the BX strut mounting is different? I've not heard of BX struts doing this - lighter car of course.

    Cheers

    JohnW

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    As far as i know this has never happenend to a Bx.


    Dave


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    It does in fact happens to BX'es as well.

    But the construction of the BX strut mount means it wont shoot up in the bonnet. Instead the complete top assembly of the strut will rattle around horizontally.

    - unless it's a really bad chassis corrosion problem, of course (our winter salt )

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndersDK
    It does in fact happens to BX'es as well.

    But the construction of the BX strut mount means it wont shoot up in the bonnet. Instead the complete top assembly of the strut will rattle around horizontally.

    - unless it's a really bad chassis corrosion problem, of course (our winter salt )
    Thanks Anders - useful to know that. Do the Europeans make up straps like the ones Shane has made to protect their Xantia bonnets?

    Cheers

    JohnW

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    Shane is the first I've seen invented this.

    Only other alternative has to do with body corrosion on the strut mounts, not applicable in Ozzie I believe ...

    It's the Nylander XM repair kit : http://w1.431.telia.com/~u43116231/

    Funny thing is, that we dont find that many reports on front strut rubber mount failures here. To date, personally I've yet to see one ...
    It could be the fact, that body corrosion comes in first as a problem, and then the complete thingy is repaired/replaced once you're ready to pay ..

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    I've never heard of too many doing it over here but in the UK & in particularly Europe it wasn't all that uncommon.
    Strangely the place that had major problems was Malaysia due to their high humidity and crook roads, in fact that was where I first heard about the problem and it was claimed that in Malaysia, that was considered one of the BXs major weaknesses; amazing how some of these things change country to country due to local weather & conditions.

    Alan S
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I've never heard of too many doing it over here but in the UK & in particularly Europe it wasn't all that uncommon.
    Strangely the place that had major problems was Malaysia due to their high humidity and crook roads, in fact that was where I first heard about the problem and it was claimed that in Malaysia, that was considered one of the BXs major weaknesses; amazing how some of these things change country to country due to local weather & conditions.

    Alan S
    I spoke with Yeung from Auto France today. His comment was that failure was more a result of poor maintenance than anything else. eg hard spheres or breakdown of rubber from fluid.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I've never heard of too many doing it over here but in the UK & in particularly Europe it wasn't all that uncommon.
    Strangely the place that had major problems was Malaysia due to their high humidity and crook roads, in fact that was where I first heard about the problem and it was claimed that in Malaysia, that was considered one of the BXs major weaknesses; amazing how some of these things change country to country due to local weather & conditions.

    Alan S
    Speaking carefully, that suggests a maintenance issue to me too - low to flat spheres and rough roads would stress precisely what fails from time to time.

    I've seen various cars minus a wheel, or with a broken ball joint, over the years. Parked at funny angles off the road - Morris Minors, one Renault R4 etc, and I'll bet all of them were rattling and banging for months beforehand.

    Cheers

    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    What a fun day.
    Then it's a mad rush to Big W for another 5litre bottle of ATF (and a permanent marker for the shed so I can write USED OIL across containers when I pour the used oil into them ).
    We used to put "UTS" on all old stuff inc. oil and tools ... UP THE SH!T

    Sound like we need to the AussieFrog "Wally Award" ... something that has to stay as your AVATAR until someone else owns up (or gets dobbed in, or slips up) for doing something silly.

    - XTC206 -
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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    I'll second the Wally award idea Sounds like a laugh.


    Dave


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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    I'll second the Wally award idea Sounds like a laugh. Dave
    I'll have it designed by tonight Have to go to work now

    - XTC206 -
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  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    We used to put "UTS" on all old stuff inc. oil and tools ... UP THE SH!T

    Sound like we need to the AussieFrog "Wally Award" ... something that has to stay as your AVATAR until someone else owns up (or gets dobbed in, or slips up) for doing something silly.

    - XTC206 -
    But, but, I could fill pages, well books with the stupid things I've done, I'd be the person that would 'win' the award just about every week

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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