Ducellier Alternator wiring
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Thread: Ducellier Alternator wiring

  1. #1
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    Default Ducellier Alternator wiring

    Good morning Gents,

    I'm back for more questions Please see two photos attached. Any idea where the rubber mounting with the 2 black earth wires get attached? - the one wire is connected to the earth battery terminal and the other is earthed to the regulator. The bugger that removed the alternator for a service cannot be reached.

    Photo 2: Im uncertain where the lug (with blue crimp) connects. It runs from the relay that can be seen in the photo. Not sure if that relay is part of original wiring setup.

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    Thanks in advance - You Australians are brilliant with Citroens - pity you can't play rugby, like us South Africans hahaha

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  2. #2
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    Two possibles for you: First would be that it is one of the two rubber feet of the voltage regulator. One of the feet is completely insulated by the rubber, but the other foot (nearest in the attached photo) has a small tang of metal with a hole through which sits on top of the rubber. Bolting down through that earths the relevant part of the regulator through the chassis.

    DSCF6057-1.jpg

    HOWEVER that rubber bit looks like it might actually be two rubber halves with a metal sleeve going them together? If so, then it might actually be one of the feet from the between the bakelite heater blower and the base it sits on. Parts 2, 3 and 11 in the attachment below.

    Bush.jpeg

    Cant understand what the wire does though - why there is a second length going back to the battery earth if it (regulator) earths at this bolting point?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ducellier Alternator wiring-insides-voltage-regulator.jpg  
    Last edited by Budge; 8th November 2019 at 06:20 PM.
    SteveS likes this.
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  3. #3
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    without knowing where the rest of the wiring goes it’s impossible to say what that blue wire is. Originally the only relays in the charge circuit are in the voltage regulator. On the back of the alternator you should have a big bat+ terminal connected directly to battery positive and smaller R terminal connected directly to the R terminal of the voltage reg. On top of the alternator is the EXC terminal which is connected directly to the EXC terminal of the voltage reg.

    At the regulator there will also be a BOB terminal connected to the positive side of the coil and an L terminal connected to the dashboard light. As previously mentioned the regulator grounds through one of the mounting bolts.
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  4. #4
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    Relay: a relay is essentially two circuits - the exciter 'trigger' circuit and the power circuit. The power bit tends to be two connections - power in and power out. It just passes through the relay.Given the spade connection of your mystery wire, I'd work on the assumption that it's probably the earth connection for the 'trigger' circuit' and was possibly simply bolted down under something that your mechanic has removed.
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  5. #5
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    Blue crimped looks like earth to other one on front blower fan mount , not original , relay might be extra for starter motor ?
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    Thank you so much guys for the input -I will be giving it a go later this morning

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    Icon12

    Just a thought; isn't the regulator shown the type you'd expect to find on a charging system which uses a dynamo, rather than an alternator?
    The latter only has one solenoid, with a vibrating contact to regulate voltage, whereas a dynamo requires a second solenoid to disconnect the battery from the dynamo when the output voltage from the dynamo is lower than battery voltage.

    p.s. Just dug this out on the 'net, daren't click on 'request quotation' though...
    .
    https://www.partscollector.com/en/mo...DArticolo=7720
    Last edited by Ken H; 10th November 2019 at 07:43 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken H View Post
    Just a thought; isn't the regulator shown the type you'd expect to find on a charging system which uses a dynamo, rather than an alternator?
    The latter only has one solenoid, with a vibrating contact to regulate voltage, whereas a dynamo requires a second solenoid to disconnect the battery from the dynamo when the output voltage from the dynamo is lower than battery voltage.

    p.s. Just dug this out on the 'net, daren't click on 'request quotation' though...
    .
    https://www.partscollector.com/en/mo...DArticolo=7720
    If you mean the photo I put up in post 2, then the point was to show the earth connection on one of the rubber feet - as a possible location for the stray wire and rubber grommet to have been fixed to.

    However, re-reading post 1, one end of the wire in question is already earthed to the voltage regulator. In hindsight I think the wire and rubber grommet might be something to do with the feet of the bakelite heater blower box.
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

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  9. #9
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faulksy View Post
    without knowing where the rest of the wiring goes it’s impossible to say what that blue wire is. Originally the only relays in the charge circuit are in the voltage regulator. On the back of the alternator you should have a big bat+ terminal connected directly to battery positive and smaller R terminal connected directly to the R terminal of the voltage reg. On top of the alternator is the EXC terminal which is connected directly to the EXC terminal of the voltage reg.

    At the regulator there will also be a BOB terminal connected to the positive side of the coil and an L terminal connected to the dashboard light. As previously mentioned the regulator grounds through one of the mounting bolts.
    The only thing really for me to add is the color (yes- I live in the US!) scheme, which is fairly simple:

    For the battery, the color sleeve is black. Yes, the wire is black, but the stud is fairly large. The stud should say "B" or "BAT"
    For "EXC"- stator- both ends are yellow. The alternator end is a 6.5mm flat terminal, the other goes to the stud marked "EXC" at the regulator.
    For "R"- rotor- both ends are white. The small ring terminal at the alternator should say "R". The ring terminal at the regulator goes to The stud marked "R".
    For "L"- charge lamp- the end you need is marked in red at the regulator. The terminal is marked "L".
    For "BOB"- ignition on- the wire is marked in either mauve or, more likely, purple. This connects to the 6.3mm terminal on the other side of the regulator.

    The other black wire you note- the one with the bare crimp terminals is the factory ground for the regulator. It is what the factory calls a "flying lead": that is, a loose wire. It goes from the non-insulated foot on the regulator base, to the battery box/hold down (I don't know exactly what year we're working with here).
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    The other black wire you note- the one with the bare crimp terminals is the factory ground for the regulator. It is what the factory calls a "flying lead": that is, a loose wire. It goes from the non-insulated foot on the regulator base, to the battery box/hold down (I don't know exactly what year we're working with here).
    Hi Bill. I think we are already told that one of that pair of wires with the bare crimped ends is already connected to the regulator earth. the other end already connected to the battery negative or earth. If you rule out the regulator feet insulators, I think that the rubber grommet and bolt are one of the anti-vibration feet of the blower. No idea why those wires would go there though!
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

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  11. #11
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    The second relay in a DS voltage regulator is for the charge lamp and starter switch. As the alternator spins up, voltage is produced at the R terminal causing the relay to open turning off the light and disabling the starter switch.
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  12. #12
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Sorry, Budge. I just kinda went into auto-pilot when I typed all that out. I'm so used to needing explain it all.
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  13. #13
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    No need to apologise Bill. I do the same myself - think out loud. Even when typing!
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    Does anyone maybe know the size of those 2 small bolts/screws for the Ducellier regulator cover - mine seems to have disappeared and im not keen to remove the wiring to take the unit to find the correct sizes. Apologies for being lazy

  15. #15
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    No. The voltage regulator is listed as a single part - inclusive of cover and bolts. Can't you work it out by elimination or try a couple of likelier from another source? I think they are teeny-tiny. Smaller than M4? Why not get a couple of M4s and smaller sizes and sort it that way?
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