C4 Picasso - issues to look for?
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Thread: C4 Picasso - issues to look for?

  1. #1
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    Default C4 Picasso - issues to look for?

    My #3 son (but #1 in Froggy appreciation) is looking at a 7-seater C4 Picasso for his growing family. I was able to tell him that it shares it's basic platform with the 307, and that the 2.0l HDi should be a 'good thing', but I've never even been in one!

    Now I've read owners on here rave about the practicality of the design, but what problems should he look for?

    Specifically, he is planning to look at one for sale in the ACT. It is a 2011, 2.0l HDi with EGS, and has done 84,000km. We don't as yet have the

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    According to the ad, it has a DW10BTED4 motor, which I presume is much the same as the engine we had in our 2006 Pug 307? Only problems it had was a stuck EGR valve (which was subject of a recall) & a failed brake switch. According to PeugeotLogic, the timing belt interval should be 180,000km, or 9 years - is this correct for Citroen also?

    I understand that the EGS means it has a manual gearbox, with automatic change. BTW, is this also referred to as an ETG6? How hard are they to park - is it jerky?

    Cheers

    Alec

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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    one-finger-tip gearchange back and forwards makes parking a delight.
    imho, once the feel for them is acquired / one stops fighting the car, the 'hand'brake, lights and forward gears are better left to it.
    having learnt the change points - to slightly back-off for them - it could not be beat for smooth progress, and the reserves of torque make driving profoundly enjoyable.
    Ours went though lots of obscure bulbs, and a fan control board - i suspect the battery should have been replaced earlier - and the doseur's recent replacement made a great improvement too.
    otherwise, only service items consistent with age and mileage.
    Now only needing cosmetic stuff and (more) control arm bushes, it remains the best car we've had ... so quite insulting to hear as a trade it's only worth maybe 2k, because picasso's don't sell.
    (no desire to lose it, just the business case)
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 1st November 2019 at 01:37 AM.
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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    Mate just my 2 cents worth...the Picasso is an amazing example of thoughtful, clever packaging. The amount of interior space for something only marginally longer than a Jazz just about puts the Tardis to shame! I can't speak to the egs so my only other comment would be to be aware that it will have a DPF and whilst PSA have had these sorted for quite some time just remember that it will need regular motorway run to enable it to "regenerate". If the car is only going to be used as a "shopping trolley" then I would lean towards a petrol model; and say this being a fan of the diesel in my C5.

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    Thanks for reinforcing that point about the DPF - it will become the primary family vehicle - if it needs long runs it might encourage them to go and visit family more often!

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    My son has driven one in Canberra - he did find the EGS changes a bit clunky for creeping alon g, but managed to park it ok. Overall it seems to be what he wanted - only other car that interests him is Honda Odyssey, and he hasn't drive one. He did comment that the one he drove rode very comfortably!

    OK - here's 2 I have VINs for
    BTW - my son lives in Canberra, so is tempted to just go with the Canberra one.
    Are the advantages of the later one sufficient to be worth paying $2000 extra + trip to Sydney

    2011 -
    VF7UARHJHAJ848778
    83,000km - Canberra car
    RHJ (DW10BTED4) motor
    MCD gearbox
    RD4/MP3" RDS COMPACT DISC AUDIO SYSTEM

    2013 - VF7UARHB8DJ625382
    90,000 km - Sydney car
    RHB (
    DW10CTED4 ) motor
    MCE gearbox
    Satnav
    RT6 radio unit
    Moon roof
    rear blinds etc.

    The book in the Canberra car says timing belt interval is 4 years - naturally it hasn't been done... I believe km limit is 100,000, so it's well inside that. How dangerous is exceeding the 4-year limit these days? Presumably Sydney car belt hasn't been done either.

    The RHJ motor is rated at 138 (horsepower?) and the RHB at 163 - sounds a worthwhile jump to me. Is timing belt interval the same?

    Is there any noticeable advantage in the MCE gearbox?

    There's another Sydney one that might be even better, but I don't have VIN yet to confirm details - car sales websites don't get details right!

    Cheers

    Alec

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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    in reality, they are all overpriced so the vendors will die, dreaming, with cars unsold.
    Mine - glass roof, leather, metallic paint etc. etc. is - sight unseen - worth no more than 2k to to the trade (presumably how insurance will value it if i were to have a claim) and i noted the fellow (from the dealership that sold it new 6 yrs ago, for around 40k, mind) said that the mileage didn't matter, it's just that people don't buy them.
    People who have them all seem to value them very differently, however.
    Point being go hard in negotiation - there are more, better, ones coming up all the time.
    I have the MCE (maybe MCD is just an earlier iteration) which is a drivetrain to die for - once it masters the driver.
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 4th November 2019 at 10:27 AM.
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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    I'm thinking he needs one like yours - last of the old model, with the later, more powerful engine, maybe better g'box, and quite a lot more fruit.

    Everyone knows that dealers are out to make a profit, and will rip us off on trades if they can. However you really should make sure that your car is insured for an 'agreed value' acceptable to both you and the insurance company - it can be worthwhile.

    In 2006, we asked about a trade-in on our 11-year old Magna wagon when buying a brand new, top of the line Pug 307 HDi wagon (nearly $40,000 I think). After only the briefest glance, the dealer offered us $1,000 trade, so we kept it. Later that year it got hail damaged, and the insurance company gave us the $6,000 that it was insured for!

    Cheers

    Alec

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    i think so, no keyless stop-start nor ad-blue either ... to tell at a glance the MY12-13s have the warning lights in the bezel either side of the 'handbrake' switch.
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 4th November 2019 at 11:14 AM.
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    Go for the DW10C engine. It's newer and a lot better
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    I think I'd be leaning towards one with the AM6 full auto rather than the EGS version, but it depends on what you like. That will most likely have the RHR engine, so a 10yo now. There are quite a few roughies out there now at that age. Don't forget, you need to refill the Eolys at about 160-180K if you are looking at high milers. I'd usually halve Canberra kms when comparing with Sydney kms because the use is easier than in city traffic.

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    I'm confused - I had learnt from AF that the letters in positions 6,7 & 8 of the VIN are the engine code. The Canberra car has a DW10BTED4 engine (according to Service Box), which according to searches on Google is indeed an RHR, but the VIN has it as an RHJ. What's an RHJ?

    And what's an RHB (in the 2013 car)?

    I acknowledge that Service Box lists the AM6 as a possible option with the RHJ & RHB motor, but it seems not many were sold in Australia - only 1 (OK 2) for sale in NSW. And as you expected, all high-mileage...

    Cheers

    Alec

    BTW - I think I may have found a hen's tooth - a 5-seat Picasso!
    https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...18134990/?Cr=2
    Last edited by Armidillo; 4th November 2019 at 09:56 PM.

  12. #12
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    My understanding is the five seat was supposed to be the C4 Picasso, the seven seat the Grand C4 P. - which hasn’t always held in the aftermarket here , yet the five-seat are not uncommon ... they are never diesel here (?) apart from the obvious can be spotted by the top of the front guard - ahead of the mirror - height not following the waistline; maybe it just overlaps the same A pillar window, because the I think the dash is the same.
    I remember someone here saying RHBs were specific to EGS applications, so not nearly as numerous as the other iterations so others may also be not much more than just states of tune... keep reading around here about belt life I did mine closer to 180k.
    I have a lot of left-over Eolys - 200 k and it only took half ...
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 4th November 2019 at 10:38 PM.
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  13. #13
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    The white car on CarSales is from the later series known as the B78 series, which came as either a 5 seat just known as Picasso or a 7 seat known as the Grand Picasso. The original shape C4 Picasso was sold here only in the 7 seat configuration in both petrol and diesel versions, with just one 5 seater arriving here with a petrol 4 cylinder engine and EGS.

    With the older series the earlier cars were either RHR diesels with an AM6 (a few early ones with rear air suspension and two different trim levels) or a petrol 4 with our old friend the AL4 gearbox. Pick the diesel version. They could have lots of used car problems now, but they had few inherent problems when near new. From memory, the EGS arrived when they were still fitting the RHR engines and so it had a different engine code, RHJ I think. When the equivalent to the RHH DW10C engine arrived in the Picasso with the EGS, the code changed again to RHB. I will stand corrected, but I think that's how it worked.

    The 'current' shape B78 series is a completely different beast. There are quite a lot of 5 seater EP6 THPs, but most sold would be 7 seater Grand Picasso with a DW10F engine using both a particle filter and the Adblue system. Later version of the 7 seat also included the turbo petrol. All have a 6 speed proper auto. For cars sold to late 2017 and some into early 2018, these all had a 6 year warranty.

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    Thank you David, that is most informative (much clearer than Wikipedia)! Hadn't occurred to me that engine code would change depending on attached transmission!

    Such a shame that so few of each spec were sold in Australia .

    B78 looks to be out of price range.

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    OK, we have found a low km example with the RHB (RHH) motor. However the following issues arise:

    * Timing belt - nowhere near km limit, but it's 7 years old - how seriously should we take the age (does the RHH still have a 4 year change interval)?

    Is it safe to drive to Canberra, and get it changed there, or are we looking for nearest mechanic in Sydney to change it first? Actually, I suspect that every low km example will have the same problem - everyone seems to take the risk on age, if not on km.
    * Head unit. This car came with factory SatNav, colour screen, and RT6 radio receiver. However the radio/head unit died, and a new genuine unit was $3,000, so owner went after-market. I am not sure whether the screen is now after-market, or original, but the head-unit is a cheapy from a hi-fi shop.

    Reversing sensors are not connected, but he's installed a reversing camera - so far so good.

    However - there's an engine check light, and a stored code of U1118. This seems to be because original head unit is not connected. Does this mean that
    a) finger tip controls won't work
    b) warnings won't be displayed

    Should we walk away? In almost every other way, this is exactly what my son was looking for...

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Alec,

    I did not do my RHR timing belt until 10 years (with a sneak peek at 8 years to assess condition) and 180kkm, so I think the timing belt will get you to Canberra OK.

    I can't offer any comment about the head unit except to say that eventually the OEM stuff needs to be replaced because it fails or does not remain supported with map upgrades etc. Both my Xantias have Pioneer head units these days because Pioneer and Sony units support the steering wheel controls fitted to Xantias of the time. You could always try to get another new or used RT6 unit and refit it down the track or find another substitute that works in better with the rest of the cars electronics.

    Whether you walk away depends on how urgent the purchase is how difficult it will be to sort the radio/telematics issue.

    Cheers, Ken

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    I was thinking the 3000 fix sounded worthwhile because of how much of their functionality is through that interface
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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    if you haven't enough to consider, the 2013 Peugeot 5008s are the next best thing
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fnqvmuch View Post
    if you haven't enough to consider, the 2013 Peugeot 5008s are the next best thing
    Thanks for the suggestion - but not many to choose from - apart from the fact that from the side, the bonnet/engine bay looks to have been stuck on as an afterthought, I'm very wary of the 1.6l turbo petrol engine - yes I know all the early problems have been fixed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fnqvmuch View Post
    I was thinking the 3000 fix sounded worthwhile because of how much of their functionality is through that interface
    And now I've had a look, it may not be as bad as current owner says - I found multiple second hand/refurbished RT6 units for sale (UK/Europe of course) for 400 pounds or 5-600 euros. That's so long as any old RT6 unit will do - if it has to have come out of a Grand Picasso it might make things more difficult.

    However I found them using the part number from the Service Box page for the Picasso in question, so I find it hard to believe that the radio head unit is Picasso specific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    Alec,

    I did not do my RHR timing belt until 10 years (with a sneak peek at 8 years to assess condition) and 180kkm, so I think the timing belt will get you to Canberra OK.

    I can't offer any comment about the head unit except to say that eventually the OEM stuff needs to be replaced because it fails or does not remain supported with map upgrades etc. Both my Xantias have Pioneer head units these days because Pioneer and Sony units support the steering wheel controls fitted to Xantias of the time. You could always try to get another new or used RT6 unit and refit it down the track or find another substitute that works in better with the rest of the cars electronics.

    Whether you walk away depends on how urgent the purchase is how difficult it will be to sort the radio/telematics issue.

    Cheers, Ken
    Thanks Ken - that's reassuring about the belt. And yes, my son knows the original ones fail - he's been through a couple in his 307.

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    The RT6 unit is also the control for the navigation and other vehicle functions. I'd rather one that works than not. Why buy into that problem unless you discount the vehicle $3K(+) to sort it.
    U1118 is described as: Fault: absence of communication with the built-in systems interface(BSI) : No signal
    It depends on what system has thrown it as to what the consequences are. If it was an ESP issue, it may go into a downgraded mode and disable the electric park brake and hill hold. it may or not be due to the RT6 issue.

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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    result?
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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    Well a decision has been made, and a car has been purchased.



    We went with the car with the faulty RD6 unit, after seller agreed to drop the price a couple of thousand $$.

    It presents well, has only done just over 50,000 km, has a good service history, and has all the fruit. It was originally owned by Qantas (sold by Continentals)!

    The replacement head unit has at least the following functions (may be more for all I know):

    * Radio
    * DVD player
    * Reversing camera
    * Satellite navigation
    * Sat-Nag - it knew about every speed limit change, and soon let me know if I exceeded any of them!

    However, the steering wheel controls are not connected, and although warning lights operate as normal, obviously no information or warning msgs can be displayed - no external temperature, no information on fuel consumption, no anti-pollution or ABS messages.

    So the plan is to install an RD6 unit. Will any RD6 unit do, or does it need to be from a Picasso?

    Fortunately the owner had kept the original unit, so one option would be repair, but the previous owner did try that avenue without success (although he only tried a local Sydney electronics repairer).

    We are currently in the Blue Mts - will do a delivery run to Canberra when the fire danger subsides...

    Cheers

    Alec

    PS - was already composing this post when fnqvmuch posted!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C4 Picasso - issues to look for?-picasso-ii.png  

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    congratulations!
    and if you hadn't already found it;
    RT6 head unit swap
    mine has a couple of different numbers, but just for reference;
    just thinking today: it does so much anticipation of what is required it is almost an AI ...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C4 Picasso - issues to look for?-img_4929.png   C4 Picasso - issues to look for?-img_4927.png  
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 12th November 2019 at 12:59 AM.
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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