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Thread: Wots this.

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Wots this.

    IMG_0773 (1).jpg What is it and why? Cheers.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    That, my friend, is a constant velocity joint similar to the ones found on very early Renault 16's. It looks like a double-cardan joint or a version of the same.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  3. #3
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    That's actually a Mayfair Supersoft 600gsm 100% Pure Egyptian Cotton Bath Towel, Yellow


  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Its old ... Note: The hub side is a taper with a keyway. I bet someone want that even if the joint is trashed as the taper and keyway isn't munched. I have no idea what it belongs too though.

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Big 6 Citroen outer drive shaft. The flange bolts to a large Bibax joint. that is carried by the universal joint next to the gearbox.
    Strangely it has a stub axle from the four cylinder car. It is possible that someone went to a lot of trouble to reduce 'snatch' in the driveline of a Big 15 ( four cylinder car). You see new things all the time and become amazed at peoples ingenuity.
    It is not hard to combine the parts from a six and a four's drive line!
    Cheers Gerry

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    It isn't a CV joint. It's a pair of universal Hookes, for when you haven't got a CV.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    It isn't a CV joint. It's a pair of universal Hookes, for when you haven't got a CV.
    It might be one of these double-cardan CV joints as used by the early Renault 16. Note the connecting spigot and socket in the centre!

    https://grabcad.com/library/double-cardan-joint-1
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    A single universal joint doesn't provide constant rotational velocity, particularly so at large angles. The two are coupled to oppose each other's variation, as proposed by Hooke.

    Old Landies and the like used a simple universal in the hub, which severely increased the turning circle because of the limited acceptable angle. The modern CV with the balls is a clever solution.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    In which case you would be talking about a Rzeppa joint. The coupled double cardan as per my post was still a CV joint. The Rzeppa is a more refined joint using much more expensive machining processes. I believe that the Rzeppa joints became really popular when BMC introduced the Austin and Morris Minis in 1959 and produced over 5.2 million x 2 of the Rzeppa CV joints to suit.
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    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    It might be one of these double-cardan CV joints as used by the early Renault 16. Note the connecting spigot and socket in the centre!

    https://grabcad.com/library/double-cardan-joint-1
    Strictly speaking it is not a true constant velocity joint. Until modern polymer type rubber was available to mould gaiters for the Rzeppa joints now found on most modern front drive cars, the double Hookes joint spigotted through the centre line served to halve the acceleration/ deceleration that occurs in a standard universal cross when operating at wide deflection angles. Therefore this joint became a practical solution to providing smooth power transfer to the driving and steering wheels of a vehicle. Even the D series cars have this arrangement although much more heavily engineered.
    Andre Lefebvre and team originally experimented with Rzeppa joints for the New Traction Avant cars in 1934, but due to misunderstandings and sheer French bloody mindedness the joints constantly under performed in expected longevity. Therefore the existing joints were a compromise that fortunately worked.
    Peter Larson sent me a very interesting article written by the son of Rzeppa concerning the mismanagement of his drive shafts that he was contracted to supply to Citroen. They were essentially hand matched and classed in assembly, however the French workers saw fit to dismantle every shaft and place the components in individual piles before grabbing pieces willy-nilly to assemble for the production line. Rzeppa saw this on an inspection tour and was enraged. Needless to say he refused to contract for any further supply!
    David S, Kim Luck, cjl and 2 others like this.
    Cheers Gerry

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    What is it, looks stuffed

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    What is it, looks stuffed
    Read what has been written to find out!
    Cheers Gerry

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    DIY types should remember that the taper driveshafts are not meant to rely on the woodruff key, but the surface of the taper binding tightly with the hub instead. It looks like someone has cut an extra slot in that shaft end. For a Six, it would be a splined driven end.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    DIY types should remember that the taper driveshafts are not meant to rely on the woodruff key, but the surface of the taper binding tightly with the hub instead. It looks like someone has cut an extra slot in that shaft end. For a Six, it would be a splined driven end.
    I think Gerry explained above that it has a L15 stub axle (taper with keyway groove) attached to a Big 6 half assembly
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    DIY types should remember that the taper driveshafts are not meant to rely on the woodruff key, but the surface of the taper binding tightly with the hub instead. It looks like someone has cut an extra slot in that shaft end. For a Six, it would be a splined driven end.
    No! There are two slots in a four cylinder tapered stub axle. One for the woodruff key and the other to accept the tab of the inner nut lock washer tab. The other tabs on the lock washer are folded into the castellations of the lock nut. One chooses the tab which most accurately corresponds with a castellation recess. The others are left unbent!
    Cheers Gerry

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    i have seen that before.

    the car i used to own - the white ex-Vietnam "cabriolet" that i had for many years had exactly those shafts

    it was a Big 15 body, converted [i thought pretty well] to a convertible

    the cradle was Big 6

    the drive shafts - until i changed them to Mitsubishi Magna - we exactly like those

    the Vietnamese mechanics, over many years, did whatever they needed to in order to keep the cars going

    no spares available, so you mix and match

    i wonder if that is from another ex-Vietnam car?

    cheers

    jon
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trading Estate View Post
    I think Gerry explained above that it has a L15 stub axle (taper with keyway groove) attached to a Big 6 half assembly
    Indeed, but just for clarity, here's a comparison of the 15 and Six driveshafts ...
    TA_DriveshaftComp.JPG

  18. #18
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    Thank you all for your replies to the question. I was particularly chuffed with the bath towel. I knew what I had but didn't know why it had been altered, thank you Jon for explaining why. Thank you Gerry, a mine of information as usual. I would suggest that if the shaft was modified, as you suggested, it would only be usable on a Big 15/ Normal as the combined length would proclude at Light 15. In addition the gearbox end of the combination would need to be altered as the end flanges are different sizes but could be changed at the last uni. Thanks again for the interest.
    Allen

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    i have seen that before.

    the car i used to own - the white ex-Vietnam "cabriolet" that i had for many years had exactly those shafts

    it was a Big 15 body, converted [i thought pretty well] to a convertible

    the cradle was Big 6

    the drive shafts - until i changed them to Mitsubishi Magna - we exactly like those

    the Vietnamese mechanics, over many years, did whatever they needed to in order to keep the cars going

    no spares available, so you mix and match

    i wonder if that is from another ex-Vietnam car?

    cheers

    jon
    Where is that car now Jon. I always thought that the best approach to the car would have been to entirely convert it over to six running gear and panels. It would have regained its proper proportions and have been a fabulous vehicle to drive.
    Perhaps you are best off without it!
    Cheers Gerry

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