dyane wiper motor fun
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Thread: dyane wiper motor fun

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Default dyane wiper motor fun

    Today I decided to make an early start on preparing the dyane for the next raid.

    First task was sorting out the dodgy windscreen wiper motor. It had always been very slow, and smelled of ozone, as if it was overloaded or missing a capacitor.
    After going through and checking the spindles, pivots etc. for friction, eventually I found this:

    Looks like the rotor was rubbing on the stator...quick check, and yes, it is making contact


    Only possible explanation is that the gear casing has warped. No idea how this could have happened, but any how, solution is to bend it back into shape. It looks like the case is make out of very thin "custard metal". What could possibly go wrong


    Found a masonry bit that exactly the same size as the hole in the casing, I figured that a masonry bit would be less brittle than a metal bit, and so less likely to snap and chop my fingers.

    After a couple of iterations of gentle persuasion, the rotor has a good half a mm clearance from the stator, and the motor spins freely. Mighty success Also, the ozone smell is now gone, but, did these motors ever have a capacitor across them to reduce arcing?

    Also, noticed this when I was putting everything back together- looks like a plug is missing from the back of the motor. Anyone got a dead motor that I can scrounge a spare one from?


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    Cheers,
    Andrew
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dyane wiper motor fun-wiper-1.png   dyane wiper motor fun-wiper-4.png   dyane wiper motor fun-wiper-3.png   dyane wiper motor fun-missing-plug.png  
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  2. #2
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    Hi Andrew,
    unfortunately, the missing items on your motor are a bit more complicated than a simple plug.
    There's a small brass part, with a nylon bearing on the business end, then a bush nut to clamp the bearing carrier into the casing.
    Its absence was probably linked to the problem you were having with the motor.

    Just one problem at this end, in that 3 of the motors I've got in stock are also missing those parts, so there seems to be a good case for using threadlock when fitting that bush nut...

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/slccha...etaken-friend/

    Ken




    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post

    Also, noticed this when I was putting everything back together- looks like a plug is missing from the back of the motor. Anyone got a dead motor that I can scrounge a spare one from?

    Cheers,
    Andrew

  3. #3
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Default

    It's missing the cockroach isn't it? I'm sure the original Autocar road test of the Dyane said it had a mechanical one in the wipers to keep the driver company. It was a lovely road test and I've wanted a Dyane, in burnt orange, ever since!

    That armature looks similar to a Renault R8/10 motor. They respond extremely well to lubrication of the gear on the shaft and just have a nylon blob on the outer casing to hold the armature down. Maybe not relevant but I've never seen a capacitor across the brushes on one of them.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Hi Ken,

    Good to hear from you. Hope you are keeping well?

    I did have a fish around to see if the plugs where still in behind the dash. But no luck, so it looks like I will need to make one up. Just ordered a M10x0.75 die from HongKong, so should have everything I need in a few weeks.
    What would be good to know is where the nylon plug sits relative to gear box casing - would it be possible to take a measurement of "h" from the parts in your photo?

    On a side note, it looks like the magnetic force in the between the stator and rotor acts to position the rotor so it is "floating" in the "up and down axis" when it is operating - magnetic levitation so to speak. So I'm am not sure that the to top and bottom nylon plugs are doing much when the motor operating. But perhaps the gears pull it down toward the missing bottom plug when there is a bit more load on the wipers. I'll check once it is back in the car (first I have to deal with the rust I found under the windscreen - grrrr)

    Hi John,

    Yes, it certainly does sound like a family of mechanical coachroaches in there! It is very much an electrical noise, so I might try experimenting with capacitors / diodes to try an quieting it down.

    Cheers,
    Andrew
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dyane wiper motor fun-wiper-blug-dimensions.png  
    JohnW and jaahn like this.

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Hi Andrew,
    not too bad, considering that recent stay in hospital after my dodgy knee decided it had been nagging me for too long and went on strike...
    Anyhow, patched back together again, so my main problem is learning my way around this new computer which my son put together.
    He didn't warn me that he'd decided to wean me off Microsoft's operating systems, so the learning curve seems rather steep.
    Still, must be doing something right, considering this is only day 2 of the new regime and I haven't broken anything yet.

    Anyhow, here are a couple of photographs which I hope will help you to recreate that spindle support bearing.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/slccha...etaken-friend/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/slccha...etaken-friend/

    Ken




    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    Hi Ken,
    Good to hear from you. Hope you are keeping well?
    Cheers,
    Andrew
    Last edited by Ken H; 4th May 2019 at 11:08 AM.
    jaahn likes this.

  6. #6
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    Hi again Andrew,
    I had some spare time this evening and had a snoop around on Ebay, where I found these parts.
    I'll leave you to work out what I'm planning to do regarding those missing parts on some of the wiper motors I've got, since there's more than one way to skin a cat...
    .
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raw-Finis...8AAOSwIQdZEaE1
    .
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8-8mm-Th...iAcIkGKkq-A3cw
    .
    Ken

  7. #7
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    Hi Andrew
    I have never seen a DC motor with capacitors to prevent arcing. Large or small. Arcing is usually caused by poor alignment, or jumping of the brushes, dirty worn commutator or similar. On large motors they use a "special stick" applied to the commutator occasionally to clean it and bed the brushes in to get good contact. I think your problem is caused by the armature moving around due to the lack of a rear bearing !!

    If all else fails I would make up a plug out of a hard hardwood, drill a bearing hole, fill with molly grease and glue it in place. See you out probably. I think that those small motors usually pull towards the drive end bearing which may be adjustable in the gearbox so the other end bearing just needs to be snug end float. You could also just do a brass plug or a nylon plug if you are not a wood worker
    Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 1st May 2019 at 12:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken H View Post
    Hi again Andrew,
    I had some spare time this evening and had a snoop around on Ebay, where I found these parts.
    I'll leave you to work out what I'm planning to do regarding those missing parts on some of the wiper motors I've got, since there's more than one way to skin a cat...
    .
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raw-Finis...8AAOSwIQdZEaE1
    .
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8-8mm-Th...iAcIkGKkq-A3cw
    .
    Ken
    Hi Ken,

    Indeed, that was my first thought. But the thread on mine measured at 0.75mm rather than 1mm, and do you think I could find a M10x0.75 bolt anywhere? What I did work out is that this is thread is used on potentiometers, so picked up some lock nuts in this size from the local electronics shop.

    So plan (for now) is to make up a brass replica of the original plug with a ptfe insert and lock nut on the end. Just waiting for the 0.75mm die to arrive from Hong Kong...

    Cheers,
    Andrew
    Ken H likes this.

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  9. #9
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    Hi Jaahn,

    That would make sense... and yes, it does pull toward the drive end.

    I gave the commutator a good clean over the weekend with 1200 grid and wipe of brake cleaner. It now looks like copper (rather than black) and the speed at no load has noticeably increased.

    When I took the wind screen out I found this.

    So it will be a while before I can test it properly.

    Cheers,
    Andrew
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dyane wiper motor fun-windscreen-hole.png  

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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