'ORIGINAL CITROEN DS' - Questions
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Thread: 'ORIGINAL CITROEN DS' - Questions

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Icon5 'ORIGINAL CITROEN DS' - Questions

    I finally got a copy of this famous book recently, thanks to the 2018 reprint.

    It has more data on the DS than any other publication that I have seen. But some of that data has me a little confused. My DS21 BVH Pallas has always been registered as a 1970 model and the Chassis number (4646080) confirms, on page 132, that it was born about mid-year 1970.
    However, the paint number is 088 (blanc meije) which according to pp 142 and 143 was only available from the 1971 year to 1975.
    The book also says that the brown leather up to and including 1970 was called Naturel and after that was called Tabac. The leather(original) in my car is identical in color to that in 1974 models.
    So, does anyone know if Naturel and Tabac are actually different shades of brown or interchangeable?

    The lower plate on the bulkhead has the build number as 0030 083176. Does this provide any useful info on my car?
    Don

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    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
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    Could it be a 1971 model year car, which would have started 1 September 1970?

    Colours for 1970 ...
    1970 and AC 088 Blanc Meije Citroen DS ID
    suggesting Blanc Meije was actually introduced about June 1970.

    Tabac and Naturel are quite obviously different, with Naturel being a light tan versus a mid brown for Tabac. Both are over-dyed with a darker colour on the raised portion of the grain. They are not interchangeable, although an earlier car might have gained a later trim set from a wreck. The giveaway is usually the B-pillar trim as a lazy converter wouldn't change these too and they should match the leather except being black vinyl with cloth / non-Pallas trim.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Oops, had a bit of brain fade last night! I thought that I was putting this on the Citroen section.
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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    Now moved ...

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Thanks for the reference to the French site. It is presumably correct in saying that the starting date of Blanc Meije was in June. I believe that my car was born around that time, hence being a1970 model.
    However the comprehensive data on their site shows that neither Naturel or Tabac leather was available with Blanc Meije until 1973! I am certain that my car still has the original interior.
    As for the color, I now recall that I have seen later Ds with a darker shade of tan. I was at an interesting event on Sunday here (the MacLaren Vale Vintage and Classic) and was comparing the leather in a 74 model with mine. They certainly appeared to be identical. Perhaps that car has had a replacement.
    Don
    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Could it be a 1971 model year car, which would have started 1 September 1970?

    Colours for 1970 ...
    1970 and AC 088 Blanc Meije Citroen DS ID
    suggesting Blanc Meije was actually introduced about June 1970.

    Tabac and Naturel are quite obviously different, with Naturel being a light tan versus a mid brown for Tabac. Both are over-dyed with a darker colour on the raised portion of the grain. They are not interchangeable, although an earlier car might have gained a later trim set from a wreck. The giveaway is usually the B-pillar trim as a lazy converter wouldn't change these too and they should match the leather except being black vinyl with cloth / non-Pallas trim.
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

  6. #6
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    I know another 1970 21 in Sydney and that was originally white with Naturel leather. I don't know if it was Blanc Meije or Blanc Cygne though. Comparison of the two whites: AC093 Blanc Cygne Citroen DS ID

  7. #7
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Yes, it' important to remember that French car years start in August as David mentioned. ie a September 1970 DS is a 71 model, but a July 1970, is a 70 model. Don't know if it helps in this case, but worth noting.
    mberry likes this.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  8. #8
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    The plot thickens. I have only assumed that the leather interior was the original. Judging by the worn out drivers seat and door panel it has been there for a long time. The rear parcel shelf is in very good nick and seems to match the seat color.
    I have today had the drivers door trim panel off and one of the paper labels on the back has as the top line '72 Garnit Inter 74' On the line below that there is a line of numbers from 11 to 16 but the latter has been punched out. On the 3 lines below that are the numbers from 17 to 34, but missing 3. I am guessing that these are weeks of the year and that this panel was made on the 16th week.
    But what intrigues me are the 72 and 74. It could be possible that this trim panel was made in 1974 and hence transferred from a later vehicle. This fits with the color chart on the French site which indicates neither of the brown leathers was available with Blanc Meije until 1973.
    I suppose none of this is of any interest to anyone else but me!
    PS - I have not been able so far to track down the history of this DS before about 1991. Prior to that I have been told that it was owned by a Doctor in Murray Bridge.
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

  9. #9
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    I think you can take those tags on your door card are definitive: at least one of the panels comes from a later car and so the chances are the interior has been swapped up. From your chassis number, your car looks though it would have been made right at the back end of the 1970 model year - so early summer 70 - and it's possible you were 'gifted' with 'blanc meije'
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

    Restoration blog: https://ds-restoration.blogspot.co.uk

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