11BL with ID block
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Thread: 11BL with ID block

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Default 11BL with ID block

    Took the engine/transaxle out of my recently-acquired 1954 11BL. When I split the transmission from the block, I saw this.

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    190317 11B flyweel.jpg

    The clutch and pressure plate appear to be ID/DS, but the flywheel is nothing like anything I have seen. Any speculation why the flywheel was so extensively modified? The back of the flywheel has about 25mm of clearance with the face of the block.

    Will an ID/DS flywheel fit inside the 11BL clutch housing without modification or is that the reason for the conical taper at the end facing the transmission?
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Probably a lathe spun flywheel to reduce inertia and improve accelerator response. I would stick with that arrangement as long as you do not get snatch in the drive line. Pre Perfo engine flywheels were about 25 lb and were quite thin. A noted Aussie/New Zealander campaigner of a heavily modified Traction racing car also lightened the flywheel of that car.
    Cheers Gerry

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The ID flywheel needs to have the front outer removed in order to fit a TA bell housing.
    Cheers Gerry

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    The teeth look good! Always a plus...…
    JohnW

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Thanks for that information. I was thinking I would replace the flywheel because I wanted to make the clutch as forgiving as possible. I have a couple of spare 1911cc DS/ID flywheels. I have no idea if I would get any driveline or other problems because the car was inop when I got it. Also there is a hole about 5mm diameter through the friction surface of this flywheel. Not sure if it is a casting flaw that was revealed when the flywheel was lightened or what. The hole almost looks intentional..

    190317 flywheel.jpg
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Yes I am inclined to agree. The hole is a puzzle. Maybe to clear dust from the wearing of the friction plate?
    Maybe the modifier went too far. All that is necessary to convert the ID flywheel is to either fit a different spigot bearing or make a circular shim to use a TA original spigot bearing. Either way the ID spigot bearing has too small an inner diameter to fit a TA mainshaft spigot.
    The ID flywheel needs to be turned to the profile of the RA pressure plate rim at the front as has been done on the flywheel you have at the moment.
    I ran a 25lb flywheel with the earlier much lighter pressure plate on a perfo engine many years ago and encountered the drive line snatch I mentioned before. Changing to the later, heavier pressure plate improved the situation dramatically. On the same engine I am now running an original unmodified flywheel and pressure plate. Sometimes I think that it is best not to modify the cars from original however fitting on ID or DS block at least gives you more modern bearing shells on mains and big ends, stronger connecting rods and a more effective main oil seal arrangement.
    If using an ID block the give away is the plate that needs to be fitted to close over the low pressure pump mounting position in front of the fuel pump. A DS block can be made to look almost identical especially if you fit a TA aluminium engine number plate in the original TA position and remove the one from the left side of the DS block. That would depend on how fussy you want to be about originality!
    Cheers Gerry

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Thanks again for the insight. I actually have a spare DS block, but I will probably stick with the ID block that came out of the car. Apparently, the DS block can only accept a DS camshaft, whereas the ID block will accept either, so as I sort through my cores for regrind I have more camshaft options. Plus, it was actually nice to know what block was in the car. Had the prior owner done too good a job at disguising it, I would have potentially inventoried some incorrect parts.

    Your observation about the spigot bearing is also spot on. The spigot bearing that is currently in the flywheel is a 6203 with a circular shim to hold it in place.
    Last edited by citroenthusiast; 20th March 2019 at 09:59 AM.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Well, what do you know. I found a special motorcycle bearing type 6203a which is 17 x 42 x 12mm, so it will fit the bore of the ID flywheel and has a bore that will accept the T/A input shaft...
    forumnoreason and FIVEDOOR like this.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Well, what do you know. I found a special motorcycle bearing type 6203a which is 17 x 42 x 12mm, so it will fit the bore of the ID flywheel and has a bore that will accept the T/A input shaft...
    Well done! Good luck with the rest of the job!
    BTW I had a good friend ( sadly passed on now) who fitted a DS crank and flywheel to a Perfo block just to get a stronger bottom end, modern bearing shells and a better oil seal. A lot of work machining the block for the end thrusts and slipper type shells! I drove that car and was very impressed with its smoothness. He was a gifted engineer you might remember some of his posts to this forum as 'lhs2.1'
    Cheers Gerry

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