Did very old coolant stuff my engine block? Opinions wanted.
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Thread: Did very old coolant stuff my engine block? Opinions wanted.

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Did very old coolant stuff my engine block? Opinions wanted.

    Hello all,

    I'd like to ask the collective AussieFrogs brains trust for opinions. I am slowly but surely dismantling everything under the bonnet to pull the engine of my 1962 ID19. Disclaimer: this car sat outside for 12 to 15 years unused.
    The radiator is OK, just some sediment, which the garden hose easily flushed away, the coolant hoses are all rotted out, the thermostat has grown alien life forms, the water pump is corroded, but after removal of the water pump hosing I found the following, see attached pictures:
    I fear I might be looking for a new long stroke engine block.....
    What do you think? Is the alloy head stuffed by old corrosive coolant?
    Cheers, Erik

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    Last edited by tomatoes4all; 11th March 2019 at 10:00 PM. Reason: added car id
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Water pump is certainlt US as is the secong ary pump housing. But only a thorough clean by a cylinder head specialist can determine the state of the head. It would be unlikely that the engine block would show similar problems as most of this electrolitic corrosion occurs in the softer metals and not in cast iron!
    Cheers Gerry

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Hi I did buy a DSpecial that had sat for 12 years will coolant in it and the damage pictured above was also evident no issues with the block but a $1300.00 bill for head repair. The engine has since been assembled and has no issues.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    My 2 cents worth, my D was same as this when I first got it and stripped it down, the alloy parts were buggered, the head was affected , not as bad as the pump, but i sourced another head. The first head got refurbished and subsequently found it way into another D that runs perfectly today. Soo as others have noted, block may be fine but head will need a good check up.
    Steve

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    There is a very thin wall between the water inlet and outlet ports at the front of the head. If this is perforated or dangerously thin, then it may be cheaper to source a new head than to have that interior wall repaired. If the wall is perforated, coolant from the pump will short cycle through the hole instead of being forced into the engine block and the engine will not cool properly.

    As others have said, the block itself is not likely to be damaged, other than the block drain will likely be completely plugged. I had to use a drill to clear out the rust that had accumulated underneath the plug.
    Last edited by citroenthusiast; 13th March 2019 at 05:28 PM.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Thank you all for your responses, quite encouraging to hear some have been revived. I'll pull the engine in the next few weeks and will separate the head from the block and we'll see if my luck holds... So far I've been quite lucky with this car. Cheers.
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  7. #7
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    If I could open the photos..... I get an error message "server down" for the second photo. When will someone sort out this site again so we can easily post photos?

    On the electrochemical scale, aluminium will sacrifice itself relative to cast iron in a conductive fluid. The water pump is typical of that. I'd expect the block to be sludged up but OK.

    I had a car with an alloy head sit for 12 years once and there was no corrosion. That was due to rainwater being used in the cooling system, as pure water is practically non-conductive.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    If I could open the photos..... I get an error message "server down" for the second photo. When will someone sort out this site again so we can easily post photos?

    ...

    Cheers
    I can see all photos, so tomatoes4all has posted "correctly".

    Just noticed - have a look at Toony's 504 For Sale post - his pictures work just the way they used to! So either:

    * we need to get Toony to show us how to post photos, or

    * something has just changed (back), or

    * the rules on posting photos are different if it's a "For Sale" ad. Since hardly anyone even tries to post photos in For Sale ads (they just link to Gumtree), how would we know ?

    Cheers

    Alec

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomatoes4all View Post
    Thank you all for your responses, quite encouraging to hear some have been revived. I'll pull the engine in the next few weeks and will separate the head from the block and we'll see if my luck holds... So far I've been quite lucky with this car. Cheers.
    Hope you're making some headway with this early ID. Michael seemed to think you are capable to get this car up and running so I'm looking forward to any updates. Encouraging to think there are people interested to work on these earlier cars.
    Michael ofcourse is constantly improving his 1962 English Safari and the '64 or so ID sedan.

    All the best, John
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Did very old coolant stuff my engine block? Opinions wanted.-michaels-safari-citin2018.jpg  
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  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Thanks John, I believe any job worth doing is worth doing well. But it's very easy to get carried away: just one more item to remove, one more after that and so on. The car's just about a shell now, with most parts removed, cleaned and stored. I'm making good progress with removing surface rust and applying RustKill primer, followed by matt black RustKill.

    Pulled the engine and removed the head last night. Well, everyone here was right, the block is good I think, however the head is past revival. See attached pictures. The valves are all in good shape, but the alloy coolant path ways are rotted out.
    Do the early engines have a engine block drain to get rid of all coolant? I'd like to flush all the jello out while the engine is sitting on wooden blocks on the floor.

    Next on the list is brakes, clutch, flush all hydraulic lines, disassemble and clean height correctors, weld in new boot floor (the old one is paper thin, but no holes!), assemble one good dashboard from this car and the parts car, weld a small hole behind the parcel shelf/c-pillar, replace missing hydraulic lines (remember the rats?), replace the head and head gasket, check the timing chain, put the engine back in, by then it's Christmas...
    After Christmas door repairs, spruce up the interior and prepare for painting. Another few new skills to learn....
    Cheers, Erik
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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Engine block drain is just forward of the dipstick tube. Usually you remove the bolt and nothing comes out until you run a drill through the accumulated gunk.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Engine block drain is just forward of the dipstick tube. Usually you remove the bolt and nothing comes out until you run a drill through the accumulated gunk.
    Or a stiff unravelled wire coat hanger. The corrosion can be quite high up sometimes.
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  13. #13
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    Don't you guys have fencing wire? Comes in various thicknesses and stiffnesses. Mind you, I have used the odd coat hanger for breaking into cars (with my keys locked inside I hasten to add) .
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  14. #14
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    From what you say about the timing change, it sounds as though you're not planning to take out the pistons and crank etc?

    I don't know if the earlier three bearing engine is the same, but with the later five bearing engines, with the head removed you need to clamp down the wet liners to stop them moving. If they dislodge, and you rebuild, you may end up with coolant leak into the sump.
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Corrosion at block/liners may be severe.
    To go to all this effort and not do everything could be a waste if there was a leak under pressure
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  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    Hello Budge,
    Thanks for your reply; Good point and I've since clamped down the liners with some oversized washers and I'll be careful not to move the pistons. Cheers.

  17. #17
    Tadpole
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    Hello Driven,
    Yes, I know.... I wasn't expecting nor planning on doing everything. However, I think it would be prudent to open the engine up and have a look. Like you said, it would be a waste of the overall effort if I'd button it back up and had issues afterwards.Was about to separate the engine from the gearbox, but got stuck on the last "funny" bolt. I used to have the right tool to undo this, but lend it to someone, somewhere..... Will have to use the grinder on a 6mm socket now, hopefully that will work.

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Hi John T,
    Yes, found it before, but nothing drained out. Turned a drill bit by hand, small trickle, lots of poking with fencing wire, some compressed air, bit more flushing with a water hose and running clear and properly now.
    I'll be more religious about changing coolant in my other cars from now onwards. Lesson learned....
    Cheers.

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