11BL Brakes
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Thread: 11BL Brakes

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Default 11BL Brakes

    Can anyone direct me to instructions/specifications for overhauling the front/rear brakes on an 11BL? I have the English language "Light Fifteen" manual, but it doesn't seem to cover this operation. Right front brake is seized. Right rear brake drum is warped....

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    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Fellow Frogger! Artificer's Avatar
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    I do not claim to be an expert on this brand car but do know these brake systems.
    Most of these brakes are bottom fixed anchor brakes. Really first generation hydraulic brakes. Difficult to adjust & get just right.
    Reason being the shoes, especially when new are not necessarily concentric with the spindle & drum.
    The Citroen front hub needs to be removed & a special tool is recommended, although I made a simple tool for <$20. Pitman arm puller modified.
    Pics attached.Puller.jpgPuller (2).JPGPuller1.JPG

    Also a link to an article I wrote on WW2 Jeep brakes that are the same but the bottom anchors can be adjusted externally when the drum is in place. Plymouth/Dodge /Chrysler/Citroen need the drum off to adjust the anchors. Some pictured methods to achieve the correct adjustment on Citroen, Plymouth etc. using & making helpful tools are in the link.
    http://jeepdraw.com/images/BRAKES-101.pdf

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    A fixture to adjust concentricity is essential. My method is to back off the upper adjusters all the way -----use the fixture to set the arm to the diameter of the drum face. and then use this setting to adjust out the bottom cams until contact is made on the lower part of the brake shoe. Then bit by bit I back off the bottom cams whilst opening up the upper cams checking for where the fixture arm makes contact on the shoe. Ideally it should be able to get perfect contact all the way around the shoe, however it is not a perfect world especially if you have purchased rivet on linings. Then it is wise to aim for contact over the mid portion of each shoe. Once this situation is achieved then once again back off the upper cams and lock and split pin the lower cams. Fit the drum and tighten to torque , and then adjust to upper cams until the shoes make contact with the drum.
    If you are having bonded shoes done take the drums to the specialist and have him make the linings with sufficient thickness so that they can be dressed to suit the drum diameter. This will ensure better initial contact over the entire face of the shoe and mean that the bedding in process will be shorter.
    Cheers Gerry

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    As for the warped rear drum it may be possible to grind, but if not, find another drum.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Thanks. I have a similar fixture (and procedure) for doing the rear drums on a DS, but it attaches to the wheel studs. On the 11B, the wheel studs are part of the brake drum, no?

    I suspect the rear drum is warped because it was probably already turned too thin given a few other maintenance shortcuts I have observed as I get to know this car - e.g. there is a road sign rivetted to the floor to cover the rust hole....
    jaahn, Armidillo and JohnW like this.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    OMG! At least replacement sections of floor are available. The traction brake fixtures mount on the stub axles. I have an original front fixture but a home made rear. The rear procedure I use starts with winding all adjusters as far back as they will go and then mounting the drum and wheel bearings. To get a reference point for the fixture I adjust the top of the leading shoe out to contact the drum. I then remove the drum and mount the fixture on the stub axle. I then set the pointer to the largest diameter of the brake shoe and then bring the other cam adjusters out until I achieve concentricity.
    jaahn and citroenthusiast like this.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Thanks. That is fairly similar to the procedure for the DS rear drums. I will report back as I make progress. I was able to back off the left front adjusters so the wheel can be moved somewhat. Hopefully that will be enough for me to get the drum off.....
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Always a good idea to back off the adjustment all the way using those upper cams before removing a brake drum! If the wheel cylinder is seized then tapping around the perimeter of the drum may encourage it to let go enough for removal.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Any tricks to getting the hub off? I have the LH threaded nut off the right hand spindle and I have the hub puller attached to the hub. (a massive thing with a 51mm stepped jaw to hold the end of the hub). I have a ball bearing between the end of the threaded ram for the puller to reduce the torque and I have the puller torqed to about 150 ft lbs, but so far nothing budges.

    Is it possible to heat the hub and perhaps get some lubricant or wax to wick into the interface? (I understand it would have to be thoroughly cleaned before reassembly).
    Last edited by citroenthusiast; 30th March 2019 at 11:24 AM.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Success at last. The hub finally succumbed to a combination of the 5lb hammer and the windy gun on the puller bolt... That's a few pounds less on the front cradle (which has to come off because I cannot press the silentbloc splines out with the 12 ton hydraulic gear puller....)
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Success at last. The hub finally succumbed to a combination of the 5lb hammer and the windy gun on the puller bolt... That's a few pounds less on the front cradle (which has to come off because I cannot press the silentbloc splines out with the 12 ton hydraulic gear puller....)
    Yes John they can require a massive force to move them! Especially if it has not been apart in living memory! The old rule still applies -----if all else fails ----get a bigger hammer!
    Seriously though once under tension from the factory puller often all it takes is some shock loading to break the taper.
    The same theory often applies to lower ball joint removal. They can often let go with such a bang that one might be forgiven for looking for the cannon that went off!
    You probably made life a little harder for yourself by inserting the ball bearing. The puller bolt requires a flat spread of force on the end of the stub axle. Concentrating the force through the ball bearing may lead to splaying of the threads and compression of the centre end face of the stub. Check the ease of refitting the nut and drill through the split pin holes to make sure this did not occur!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! Artificer's Avatar
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    Jack the other side wheel off the ground.
    With the puller loaded up & wheel/hub being removed in place, tyre on the ground.
    A good straight swing to the puller bolt with a 14# & the hub will be loose.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artificer View Post
    Jack the other side wheel off the ground.
    With the puller loaded up & wheel/hub being removed in place, tyre on the ground.
    A good straight swing to the puller bolt with a 14# & the hub will be loose.
    This won't work on a fully enclosed BM wheel rim. The hub cap mounting strap gets in the way. Only good for Slough wheels and prewar wheels.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    You probably made life a little harder for yourself by inserting the ball bearing. The puller bolt requires a flat spread of force on the end of the stub axle. Concentrating the force through the ball bearing may lead to splaying of the threads and compression of the centre end face of the stub. Check the ease of refitting the nut and drill through the split pin holes to make sure this did not occur!
    I checked the threads and everything is OK. On my car, there is a short unthreaded section somewhat less than the root diameter of the threads at the end of the stub axle.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    I checked the threads and everything is OK. On my car, there is a short unthreaded section somewhat less than the root diameter of the threads at the end of the stub axle.
    Yes that is how the majority of them are made. I have seen very few stubs where the thread extends all the way to the end face, and I have overhauled quite a few drive shafts for club members in my time.
    Cheers Gerry

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