195/65-15
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Thread: 195/65-15

  1. #1
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    Default 195/65-15

    195/65-15 is a useful size for a range of cars which came originally with a narrower & higher profile tyre.

    Others might be interested in my choices. For me, wet grip under braking & laterally is of paramount importance & no tyre listed below is dangerous in this respect although some are better than others. Apart from the ones identified as regional (not sold in Europe) each can be checked on via the tests collated at the Tyre Reviews site in Britain.

    The regional ones are more awkward. Choice does tests (access only to subscribers) & Wheels & an on-line cousin of theirs test smallish mid-range tyres like these.

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    Mostly from Bob Jane's site for prices & including discounts (D) applicable, I'd short (S) & medium (M) list the following (in order of price for a set of 4; although these are all pre-haggling, they give a rough comparative idea):

    $350 D
    Hankook Kinergy Eco K425 M

    [$480 D Michelin XM2 Not recommended (mediocre wet grip) & included for price comparison purposes only &, perhaps, because froggers tend to favour Michelin. A regional type & about to be replaced by an upgraded version: the XM2+.]

    $520 (500 at Jax - odd, BJ is usually cheaper but they'd beat Jax)
    Continental UltraContact6 M (a regional type with diminished wet grip compared to the PC5)

    $520
    Pirelli P6 M. Another regional type but rather crisper than its Euro brother, the P1, which is also available, & better in the wet. I have owned each of these for the rear of my rear-engined Renaults (in 185/60-14) & can't see whyone would buy the P1 over the P6 unless higher load loading is crucial. Of these two, only the P1 is available in the 95 rating - see below.

    $580
    Bridgestone Turanza T001 M Mostly included as it is available in a 95 load rating. I have also had the T001 on the rear of my R.E. Renaults. It's a good tyre & my view of it in the wet was better than some of the tests at Tyre Reviews (perhaps I got one of the compound upgrades).

    $600
    Continental PremiumContact5 S Apart from wear being higher than many (often a trade-off for wet grip although compounders are becoming cleverer) I consider this tyre to be exemplary across the range of parameters of performance appraisal. An older type now (replaced by the PC6, although not in this size) but still on test podia - as it has consistently been since its release. Fitted & now refitted to a daughter's car in this size.

    $600
    Michelin Primacy4 S Michelin has long had mediocre offerings in this "premium touring" tyre group but the P4 seems to be a sharp improvement over its predecessors. Only one test seen so far but it is notable for beating the PC5 (a known & excellent reference point). Tests vary in the protocols employed & one really wants a good result in the parameters of major interest over a spread of tests but other evidence of a Michelin revival with the PS4 & PS4S generates optimism that this is a very good tyre.

    $620
    Pirelli P1 M See comments above for the P6.

    $620 (a Jax price, so a better comparison price would be around $600)
    Dunlop FM800 M (drifting up towards S) I haven't seen a test of these yet as it's a regional type. But it's another tyre I've fitted to the rear of my Renaults & I thus have T001, P6 & P1 as recent reference points (two of these are widely tested). I rate them as very good indeed laterally in the wet (unusual in a regionally focused design type). It's noticeably better in the wet than the other 3. (I fang in the wet.) Good as it is though, I can't see why one would choose it over the PC5 or P4.

    YMMV Peter
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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    BJ would probably be the only tyre store still able to balance the centerless rims, so best to haggle with BJ and save the running around.
    Great write up Peter as looking at changing shortly.
    Cheers

    Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app

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    Pretty sharp prices relative to what some cost too. Our neighbour spends that much per corner on his Nissan Patrol....

    Thanks Peter.
    JohnW

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    All the things you want : - Michelin PS4
    Had a set fitted to the C5 at Costco.
    Best price, and they took great care fitting them
    highly recommended if you have one nearby.

    My tyre experience from those on your list
    XM2 - mediocre wet grip
    Pirelli P1/6 - mediocre grip, noisy when worn
    Bridgestone anything - nervous initial steering

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC1701 View Post
    All the things you want : - Michelin PS4
    Had a set fitted to the C5 at Costco.
    Best price, and they took great care fitting them
    highly recommended if you have one nearby.

    My tyre experience from those on your list
    XM2 - mediocre wet grip
    Pirelli P1/6 - mediocre grip, noisy when worn
    Bridgestone anything - nervous initial steering
    Sadly, the PS4 doesn't come in 195/65-15.

    What I like in the wet with either Pirelli is that the limit behaviour is benign. They tell you what they're about to do, then don't do it snappily & respond nicely to remedial inputs. I don't much mind less lateral grip than, say, the FM800 as they are only on at the rear & the differently sized fronts use Conti's excellent PC2 (I do want the front locked into the road in the wet.). My major hassle has been getting a rear tyre which operates at anything like the low slip angles of the PC2.

    I have found Bridgestones to vary markedly in their operative slip angles. The Potenza RE 003 operates at low slip angles & is very crisply responsive. The T001 Turanza operates at higher slip angles. This is partly structure but also some tread element instability when new. They crispened up remarkably when worn down a few mm. Ditto, for that matter, for the FM800. The Pirellis (more so the P6) are lower slip angle tyres, even with a new tread. So far, of the 4 currently available tyres tried at the rear of my Renaults, the FM800 is the closest wet grip match for the PC2 Contis & the P6 closest to the low operative slip angle of the PC2. So, no perfect match yet. (Were I to be in Europe, I could get both front & rear in the admirable PC5 - grr!!)

    cheers! Peter

  6. #6
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    Conti's are generally good and perform well. but the stiff sidewalls give a crashy, noisy ride. Noisy on the chipped surfaces in AU.
    In 65 section though, that might soften and improve the ride quality; which is, IMHO, the bugbear of Conti's.

    Dunlop can make some good tyres, but I think the FM800 might not have the wet or dry grip levels your looking for.

    Son had Pirelli P6's on an Alfa, like driving on butter in the wet, not a whole lot better in the dry. P1's are an entry level tyre.

    Difficult choice for you as there isn't much in the way of sticky tyres in that size available here.

    Do you have room for 205/60-15? Might, just might, give you a better selection. Within about 1% of rolling circumference.
    Last edited by CC1701; 25th February 2019 at 04:23 AM.

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    Just wanted to say I fitted two 215 65 15 Continental Premium Contact 5 to the front of my SM a couple of weeks ago and I must say they’re very good. I haven’t been out in heavy rain yet, but they grip and stop really well. Thinking about out buying another two for the rear as they’re not expensive (unlike the XWX’s!)
    Cheers, Marc.

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  8. #8
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    To CC1701:

    Contis are a range, not a tyre; types within that range vary widely in characteristics.

    If comfort & noise are priorities, then 205/60-15 gives access to the ComfortContact6 (but not to anything else of distinction that 195/65 does not). This tyre would be about as good as it gets on these parameters. Mind you, it's sloppy in response (structure-caused high slip angle) & has poor wet grip - I wouldn't fit it in a fit. YMMV

    I am astonished that the PC5 could be deemed harsh. (As for grip, as marc61 will find, it must be a startling improvement in the wet over the woeful XWX.)

    I accept that the P1 is an "entry-level" tyre but, within that limit, it has merits (nice limit behaviour, stable tread elements). The P6 is a decided improvement across the range of parameters of performance. 'Butter in the wet' jars. I drive swing-axle rear-engined Renaults (standardly at the limit) on twisty country roads & with a very very good wet tyre (PC2) on the front which the rears have to balance. The P6 is not a paragon of wet-grip virtue but it is nicely grippy & predictable.

    As for the FM800, we'll just have to "agree to disagree" about wet performance. I rate it.

    Mind you, as the decision is always not what is wonderful but what is best (on chosen parameters) in the size, my medium list would come to attention only were there not to be a very good short list of two in this size.

    Were either the PC5 or the P4 to be available in 185/60-14, I wouldn't be purchasing from my medium-list.

    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 1st March 2019 at 02:34 AM.
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  9. #9
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    hi peter
    you haven't mentioned what they are going on.
    the size does limit seem to limit the options quite a bit. most of the sticky stuff comes in low profiles.

    will have to retract the comment on the FM800's. I was thinking of another dunlop tyre i had years ago with a similar sounding name. Have not driven on the FM800's.

    My comments on Continental tyres are a generalization from experience of driving on them. They generally make reasonable to good tyres, but too stiff for my taste. Guess they are mostly designed for their primary domestic market where stiff sidewalls are preferred for high speed stability.

    I recall years ago driving on a Taiwanese tyre, Maxxis I think, in around the size you're looking at, and was really surprised by the level of traction they had both wet and dry, and the accuracy of the steering. Will try to remember the model, but it was years ago.
    Might be an outside of the box option.

    Otherwise the T001 might be the best option.

    for me, tyres are about safety. Grip = safety. Slip or sliding around isn't desirable to me. Any loss of traction diminishes the security of my most precious assets.

  10. #10
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    There's a thread on 505 tyres in the Technical forum which generated this one from me but the focus is not on vehicle but on size (see first post).

    195/65-15 is hardly a size which will feature "to die for" tyres. However, good stuff is available & 2 bits of better-than-good stuff are also available. (See initial post.)

    My mention of 185/60-14 is simply due to that being the size that provides most of my personal experience of the options.

    My 4 toys have one raison d'Ítre: to be enjoyable on a country road around corners. That experience is at its most enjoyable in the wet around the limit of adhesion. At least, that is so for me (YMMV).

    Even if that aesthetic preference is not shared, & one prefers more constrained driving experiences, one aspect of tyre behaviour is of importance to each driving style: limit behaviour.

    In my case, it is important in that it affects my capacity to "play" on the limit without excessive risk of being "bitten". In the case of a more constrained driver, it is important when untoward events eventuate & an undesired & unplanned transgression of grip occurs, either under braking or laterally or both. It is then that one wants a tyre which cooperates & talks & doesn't snap.

    cheers! Peter
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