DS Hydraulic pump 3 belts from semi -auto to drive Aircon?
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Thread: DS Hydraulic pump 3 belts from semi -auto to drive Aircon?

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Default DS Hydraulic pump 3 belts from semi -auto to drive Aircon?

    With the water pumps with 3 belts for aircon being now so rare, anyone knows whether the hydro pump with 3 belts from a semi-auto, can fit a non semi auto and instead power the aircon in an automatique? Can't see why not

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    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 20th January 2019 at 08:46 PM.
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    First thing to say is that I've not got air con. Isn't the air con usually driven from the water pump, and isn't it these that are rare because the pulley is spun-on, not bolted? If you're planning to exploit a pulley on the HP pump rather than the water pump, then one consideration will be pump alignment and a clear run for the belt - i.e. other belts not being in the way. The pulleys on the water pump are further forward than those of the HP pump pulleys and I'd imagine that a third air con groove on the water pump means the belt would be even further forward.

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    Last edited by Budge; 20th January 2019 at 07:57 PM.
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    Default DS Hydraulic pump 3 belts from semi -auto to drive Aircon?

    Physically there is no difference between a 3 groove hydraulic pump and a 2 groove one so it will fit and work just the same. You could even just unbolt the pulley from a spare 3 groove pump and bolt it to the pump already in the car. Space will be tight but not impossible.

    Not sure how the bearings in the hydraulic pump will go with the load of driving a compressor as they arenít specifically designed for it. Unevenly wearing the brass seal carrier behind the front bearing will cause the pump to leak. it is on the working side and takes the full 2400psi system pressure. Not saying it will be a problem just something to keep in mind.

    Driving the centrifugal regulator isnít a big ask so I doubt the bearings were beefed up, no doubt someone with more knowledge will chime in.

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    The HP pumps are the same and you just swap the pulley. There are 3 row water pumps out there if needed - see Rally's recent request in parts. Or look to the setup as shown by Citroenenthusiast to run everything with two belts, but I can't find the photos John posted.

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    SKP had a DS with air-con set up beside the hydraulic pump in his workshop last week. It had a one-off frame mounted beside to carry the compressor. So it would seem to be possible - how well it works is another question!
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    Thanks for the learned replies. The cost of the installation probably favourable to the cost of acquiring one of the three pulleys water pump.....
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    Harrison, see this alternative arrangement that I have now located.
    DS Airconditioning
    The whole thread is worth a read through again if considering AC in a DS.
    DS Airconditioning

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    If driven from the HP pump I would be concerned about the speed of the HP pump and hence the speed of the AC compressor , as it is driven by an equal sized pulley on the cam , ie it runs at half engine speed.
    The water pump is run by the much larger pulls on the cam and runs at about crank speed.
    This might not be a problem with a large enough AC compressor.
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    Hello, my Sanden compressor is driven from the HP pump and works well, even at tickover. It is a Sanden SD7H15

    Peter

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    I would have thought it would turn far to slowly. The HP pump has a much smaller pulley than the water pump (think about what happens when you select a really small front sprocket on your mountain bike .... you pedal like crazy but the back wheel barely turns).
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    No matter how it is powered I suggest getting rid of the reciprocating piston style compressor if you still have one.. They are vibration prone and it created fatigue cracks, A nice wobble plate ( as is the Sanden style ) is likely to be smoother operating, with lesser clutching loads and smaller in dimensions.

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    And to think that I have been running my alternator with a single belt for all these years! Naughty me.
    Woody
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    Not a DS of course, but I modified our CX to run a double belt to the compressor. This greatly reduced belt tensions and therefore the load on the water pump bearing. Very successful if you have the opportunity. They don't have a double-belt pulley on the compressors for nothing.

    Have fun with it....
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    One word for D/CX cabin heat. Aestivation!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    No matter how it is powered I suggest getting rid of the reciprocating piston style compressor if you still have one.. They are vibration prone and it created fatigue cracks, A nice wobble plate ( as is the Sanden style ) is likely to be smoother operating, with lesser clutching loads and smaller in dimensions.
    THat's the plan!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Not a DS of course, but I modified our CX to run a double belt to the compressor. This greatly reduced belt tensions and therefore the load on the water pump bearing. Very successful if you have the opportunity. They don't have a double-belt pulley on the compressors for nothing.

    Have fun with it....
    Good thinking there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    One word for D/CX cabin heat. Aestivation!
    mmmm.......Can't work it out!
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    Aestivation is the summer equivalent of hibernation. If you are a snail, you seal up the big hole once you've found somewhere cool and not too dry to wait out the hot and dry weather. It's perhaps the best thing to do with a DS or CX in hot weather. Just wait until it gets cool.....

    Very funny David.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The HP pumps are the same and you just swap the pulley. There are 3 row water pumps out there if needed - see Rally's recent request in parts. Or look to the setup as shown by Citroenenthusiast to run everything with two belts, but I can't find the photos John posted.
    Here is that setup. The compressor is mounted in place of the alternator, then the alternator is mounted to the top of the compressor.

    SD508 in 67 DS thumb.jpg


    Here is the machine drawing to make the brackets for the compressor.

    SD 508 mount for DS in place of Alternator.jpg

    The front bracket is shown in the drawing. The rear bracket should be made with a hole instead of the rounded slot shown in the drawing
    Last edited by citroenthusiast; 22nd January 2019 at 05:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Aestivation is the summer equivalent of hibernation. If you are a snail, you seal up the big hole once you've found somewhere cool and not too dry to wait out the hot and dry weather. It's perhaps the best thing to do with a DS or CX in hot weather. Just wait until it gets cool.....

    Very funny David.
    Ah! Alrighty, I guess I should have googled it. But I thought it was a made up word! How ignorant of me!
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    Finally my new compressor arrived , so fitted it up and very pleased with how solid the mount feels.
    The main mount under the compressor has a slot in it to go over the clutch cable , so that it was fitted without removing clutch cable.
    The top mount is onto the regulator mounting point.DS AC Pics (7).JPGDS AC Pics (5).JPG
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    DS AC Pics (5).JPGDS AC Pics (8).JPGDS AC Pics (6).JPGDS AC Pics (6).JPGFinally my new compressor arrived , so fitted it up and very pleased with how solid the mount feels.
    The main mount under the compressor has a slot in it to go over the clutch cable , so that it was fitted without removing clutch cable.
    The top mount is onto the regulator mounting point.


    DS AC Pics (2).JPGDS AC Pics (2).JPG
    Last edited by Rally; 24th January 2019 at 03:10 PM. Reason: add some photos
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    ^That looks really neat, I've not seen a set-up with a tensioner in the loop

    Othello of Citothello has had new condensers made up for fitting in the original position (site can take a few attempts to load at the moment)
    https://citrothello.net/blog/tek_compteurs_fabrice-2/

    The other option, if your oem condensrs are stuffed is to fit a condenser in front of the radiator. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    ^That looks really neat, I've not seen a set-up with a tensioner in the loop

    Othello of Citothello has had new condensers made up for fitting in the original position (site can take a few attempts to load at the moment)
    https://citrothello.net/blog/tek_compteurs_fabrice-2/

    The other option, if your oem condensrs are stuffed is to fit a condenser in front of the radiator. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    I dont like the idea of a movable compressor to tension the belt , so set out to make a bullet proof bracket and its easy to add the tensioner .


    I thought about putting the condenser in front of radiator but since I was worried about over heating have purchased a pair of second hand condensers , and going ahead with them. If they leak the it will be in front of rad.
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