DS23 Rear wheel brake cylinder replacement tomorrow.
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Thread: DS23 Rear wheel brake cylinder replacement tomorrow.

  1. #1
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Default DS23 Rear wheel brake cylinder replacement tomorrow.

    Taking the plunge tomorrow with my first rear brake cylinder replacement.
    I read the manuals, so the plan is:

    - Put the car on highest setting,
    - Place stands under the rear (reinforced area) with a piece of timber under chassis,
    - Lower to lowest setting to depressurize,
    - Depressurize by turning the screw of pressure regulator a 1/4 turn.
    - take guard off and wheel,
    - Take two screws of off the drum,
    - Tap the drum off to separate it,
    - Disconnect hydro line at the back of wheel cylinder, remove two bolts,
    - Spread the shoes and take out cylinder.

    -Install new cylinder,
    - connect hydro line,
    - tighten the two bolts loosely,

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    Bleed brakes: Proper procedure not known ie: do I bleed only this brake?

    Any advice welcome ,and the sequence of events after.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    You will only need to bleed the cylinder/s you are replacing.
    Cheers Gerry

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    the sequence of events is hard to predict after, depends on the person and their individual idionsyncracies one expects. Beer is a plausible option. You can run a hose all the way back to the tank if you like watching air bubbles being teased out.

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    the sequence of events is hard to predict after, depends on the person and their individual idionsyncracies one expects. Beer is a plausible option. You can run a hose all the way back to the tank if you like watching air bubbles being teased out.
    Looks like at "Ici" beer drinking starts early.
    I try to limit alcohol consumption till after 5pm, something I learnt from the English.
    It's one of two things I learnt from the English, I forget what the other one is.

    What I was asking mostly is the proper brake bleeding procedure, once the cylinder is back in.
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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    well if I get my repair work done early enough why not? It's kind of a free country. A bit. Looks can be deceptive.
    Jeez what were you doing before you learnt not to drink before 5????


    brakes? You can run a hose all the way back to the tank if you like watching air bubbles being teased out.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 2nd December 2018 at 11:22 AM.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I believe that the procedure requires the brake cylinder bleed screw to be opened with a clear neoprene tube attached to the bleeder, the car on high suspension setting still jacked at the rear and on stands. Then the brake pedal is depressed by an assistant as you close the regulator bleed screw. Watch the clear tube and note when the flow is clean and without bubbles. Close the brake cylinder bleed screw. Repeat for the other side if replacing both wheel cylinders, but open the regulator once again before you start the second side.
    The purpose of opening and closing the regulator bleed is to prevent a sudden rush of high pressure fluid once the brake cylinder bleed screw is open. High pressure results in the air being emulsified in the fluid and therefore an improper bleed.
    Best if your bleed tube is a long one and can reach back to the LHM reservoir. But if this is not possible the tube end can be placed into a vegemite jar or something similar.
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    Cheers Gerry

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    It's always after 5 pm somewhere.....
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    JohnW

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    I hope Mr Parker doesn't object, direct quote:

    111. In my opinion, one of the most misunderstood techniques in DS maintenance is bleeding a brake system or in the DS case- an hydraulic system. I had a case yesterday where the owner put topup LHM into the Reservoir too late, Result- Air in the brakes. Then if you try bleeding the brakes, particularly the rear brakes with a short tube and a container, it is unlikely you will get ALL the air out. The rear pipe/pipes from the front of the vehicle contain a considerable amount of oil that could be replaced with air. The local Citroen Garage- H.A.S. Auto Repairs Lonsdale was working on the car and invited me to check the car.
    To do the bleeding I had a complete roll of plastic transparent tubing that cost $17 and had about 20 metres on it. First I cut 2 lengths about 6 metres long and attached each to the open rear brake nipples. Then with the tubes going up over the roof of the car or open doors if you prefer and into the Reservoir in the engine bay. The air will rise naturally and be replaced by oil descending. Do similarly with the front brakes although they usually only have one nipple being in sequence. Open the bleed screws and have the bleed screw on the Hydraulic Regulator only open about a quarter of a turn to achieve FLOW rather than significant flow that my create pressure. Remember- Pressure is Resistance to Flow.
    Start the engine and hold the foot on the brake pedal or button and keep it there for 5 minutes if necessary. There will be a point where there is only oil going up the tube-no air. (Remember the suspension bleeds itself naturally.)
    The principle is it is hard to force air downwards.

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Well, looks like I'll have to abort and get a long tube first.
    Plus it's already 35deg. in the houss, probly 40 in the garage.

    I'll now have to start drinking earlier than 5pm, due to your bad influence
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Well, looks like I'll have to abort and get a long tube first. Plus it's already 35deg. in the houss, probly 40 in the garage. I'll now have to start drinking earlier than 5pm, due to your bad influence
    All things in moderation. "Moderation" doesn't infer timing IMHO! Also, jobs like bleeding are best done when you are in the mood and 40 degrees isn't conducive to that. I'm deferring a CX coolant change for exactly that reason.

    Hope it goes well when you get to it.
    JohnW

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    you must learn that you have to finish the job BEFORE you are allowed an apero. There's these things called fans btw.

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Wasn't aware you were a fan of mine!

    Sent from my GT-P5110 using aussiefrogs mobile app
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Wasn't aware you were a fan of mine!

    Sent from my GT-P5110 using aussiefrogs mobile app
    I'm a big fan of yours

    Too hot to be playing with cars - Phillipe don't overthink what you are doing. . .

    Swapping in a wheel cylinder won't introduce the same volume of air as in forumnoreason's cut and paste via Roger Parker ^, that is an extreme case where the method described might be necessary.

    A short length of clear tube and a clean glass jar with a small amount of LHM in the bottom should suffice. An assistant on the brake pedal while you keep an eye on the tube, and occasional check of the LHM tank level, adding as required. Close off the bleed nipple once there is no air and the stream is a nice bright green - the LHM at these points seldom is recycled through the system so may be dirty.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    give it a hydro rinse while you're at it, not your throat the car.

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    I'm a big fan of yours

    Too hot to be playing with cars - Phillipe don't overthink what you are doing. . .

    Swapping in a wheel cylinder won't introduce the same volume of air as in forumnoreason's cut and paste via Roger Parker ^, that is an extreme case where the method described might be necessary.

    A short length of clear tube and a clean glass jar with a small amount of LHM in the bottom should suffice. An assistant on the brake pedal while you keep an eye on the tube, and occasional check of the LHM tank level, adding as required. Close off the bleed nipple once there is no air and the stream is a nice bright green - the LHM at these points seldom is recycled through the system so may be dirty.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Yes, that's what I had planned originally. Got a little kit "one man brake bleeding kit" which contains , clear hose, magnet equiped bottle, so you can move it around with you anywhere whilst you go through the different steps.

    Anyways it got too hot too fast todayand am gladI idn't tackle it. May have to wait till Christmas where there'll be more time and potential assistants around. Thanks Chris
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    Or simply slacken the 12mm screw on the regulator per Mr Parker and place a couple of bricks on the brake pedal. Then open the bleeder at the wheel cylinder and let it flow until the bubbles stop. You can do this at each corner. Works well and there is never a risk of a green shower as the pressure in the system is low with the regulator bleed screw slackened. You may not want the fluid to return to the reservoir if it has been in a relative dead end part of the hydraulics for some time.

    p.s. The one man bleeding kits are good for most cars as they draw the brake fluid through by a slight vacuum. The years I spent calling out to someone up-down-up-down .... not necessary on a normal car if you have a vacuum bleeder kit. However, this isn't how the Citroen works, so at a minimum you need one glass jar, a bit of old tube and a spanner for the bleed nipple - 9mm??

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I'm waiting to hear how easily the brake drum comes off. I reckon the 'tap tap' comment is a bit of an understatement like a few other steps in the procedure too.

    Cheers, Ken

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    And after they are bashed off with a puffy blast of carcinogens in your face you’ll get to see how worn the shoes are and the drums! Wear a paper mask when you do that bit at least. With a fan ( sorry I can’t be present) blowing the crap away from you.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger
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    You shouldn't need to adjust the shoes as you are only changing the wheel cylinder. However, if the shoes need adjustment, I think it was Pottsy who made a simple DIY version of the shoe adjustment tool. It's here somewhere. Maybe, someone else will have made one up.

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    DIY instructions for the job,

    https://youtu.be/iJbH5xxEucg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    I'm waiting to hear how easily the brake drum comes off. I reckon the 'tap tap' comment is a bit of an understatement like a few other steps in the procedure too.

    Cheers, Ken
    Should not be too hard if the top adjustment cams are backed off all the way first.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Or simply slacken the 12mm screw on the regulator per Mr Parker and place a couple of bricks on the brake pedal. Then open the bleeder at the wheel cylinder and let it flow until the bubbles stop. You can do this at each corner. Works well and there is never a risk of a green shower as the pressure in the system is low with the regulator bleed screw slackened. You may not want the fluid to return to the reservoir if it has been in a relative dead end part of the hydraulics for some time.
    Yep, I think I'll go with this method.

    David, which height setting with that? Lowest?
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    DIY instructions for the job,

    https://youtu.be/iJbH5xxEucg
    Yes I watched all the DSTT videos on the topic. I didn't mention the war!
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    Especially considering those guys are Dotch.

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    That's why I didn't mention it, otherwise, I would.
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