Modified Traction
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Thread: Modified Traction

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Modified Traction

    As discussed recently I had cascading sets of issues with my traction engine.

    After pulling the head I have found the pistons in two cylinders are destroyed around the crowns. The lack of compression in cylinder 1 was from a piece of piston jammed in the valve seat.

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    With all the issues I have together I am going to have the engine rebuilt professionally by someone well experienced with french wet sleeve engines in Sydney. I also have engine mount issues, oil leak issues, and must replace at least the upper link arms for the front suspension. I want to get a decent mechanical base line on the car as the body deserves it. The car is now ready to trailer out as is when a spot becomes available in the shop.

    I have the head flushed and polished but was surprised to find that it had been worked. The inlet valves are 41mm. I believe these are serviceable but the standard 34mm exhaust valves are shot. Does anyone have any experience with 41's?

    Also is the standard traction head a little concave on the side walls ?
    (the service manual and parts manual drawings I have aren't detailed)

    As discussed before I also have the Weber 38DCD carburettor fitted and I looked up the exact tipo and the cars it was fitted to around 1960 were all performance models for the likes of the Renault Dauphine Alpine and Fiat etc etc.

    I am hoping the crank etc is found to be more standard when the bottom end is pulled down. I have made an attempt to find some more history on the car pre the latest restoration from a Coonabarabran paddock car but it may take some time or not even be possible.

    My question today relates to the sleeves, pistons and rings traction owners would recommend. Should I go with later ID/D versions and are there any pro/con issues?

    I think I will stick with the weber but am not otherwise inclined to chase performance for the sake of it.

    Thanks for any comments

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! tractionfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossDel View Post
    As discussed recently I had cascading sets of issues with my traction engine.

    After pulling the head I have found the pistons in two cylinders are destroyed around the crowns. The lack of compression in cylinder 1 was from a piece of piston jammed in the valve seat.

    With all the issues I have together I am going to have the engine rebuilt professionally by someone well experienced with french wet sleeve engines in Sydney. I also have engine mount issues, oil leak issues, and must replace at least the upper link arms for the front suspension. I want to get a decent mechanical base line on the car as the body deserves it. The car is now ready to trailer out as is when a spot becomes available in the shop.

    I have the head flushed and polished but was surprised to find that it had been worked. The inlet valves are 41mm. I believe these are serviceable but the standard 34mm exhaust valves are shot. Does anyone have any experience with 41's?

    Also is the standard traction head a little concave on the side walls ?
    (the service manual and parts manual drawings I have aren't detailed)

    As discussed before I also have the Weber 38DCD carburettor fitted and I looked up the exact tipo and the cars it was fitted to around 1960 were all performance models for the likes of the Renault Dauphine Alpine and Fiat etc etc.

    I am hoping the crank etc is found to be more standard when the bottom end is pulled down. I have made an attempt to find some more history on the car pre the latest restoration from a Coonabarabran paddock car but it may take some time or not even be possible.

    My question today relates to the sleeves, pistons and rings traction owners would recommend. Should I go with later ID/D versions and are there any pro/con issues?

    I think I will stick with the weber but am not otherwise inclined to chase performance for the sake of it.

    Thanks for any comments
    hello Rosdel,
    I have used original pistons and liners with ID rods on my big 6. I did this in 2008. so far so good.
    RossDel likes this.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    An ID 19 piston and sleeve set with the flat top pistons will drop straight in, See if you can get a set of ID/DS 19 rods and convert to slipper bearings as the older babbitted rods were prone to breaking up the white metal. New oil seals , main bearings and slipper bearings are available from CTA in the Netherlands as are the pistons sleeves and valves. Replace the water distribution tube in the head and ensure that the water jet holes point directly at the exhaust valve seats. Also it is a good idea to re-bush and reface the valves rockers and fit to a new shaft. The oil pump can also be reconditioned with new gears and even a new idler shaft if necessary.
    Concerning piston and sleeve sets the best ones in my opinion are 'Bretille' and 'Mahle'. Avoid 'Monopole-Floquet'.
    I would also renew the timing chain and fit the tensioner spring that CTA have 'invented'. It drops in easily without modification and is essentially a curved piece of spring steel fixed to one of the timing case bolts.
    Traction engines also run much better if they are balanced. Do not worry about working the head. It is not necessary as the gains will be small. Also new stainless valves and seats are available for use with 91 unleaded petrol. I just use flash lube as a lead substitute.
    Last edited by gerrypro; 27th November 2018 at 08:14 AM.
    Dave Rogers and RossDel like this.
    Cheers Gerry

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Thank you. It may be a while before it is stripped down and we can confirm choices. Will go with the tensioner for sure.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Quite a bit of the information here will be useful when reassembling an 11B engine.

    Rogers rebuilding a DS19 engine thread: DS19 engine reconditioning
    RossDel likes this.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger
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    Don't forget the parts book shows the conrods were improved/enlarged around 1959 and so you would want to use the later type. There would be few DS19 cars/engine donors out there with the earlier conrods now and you'd expect all of the locally built ID19s to have the later type.

    One benefit of white metal bearings is you can make them any size you like, so are not forced to regrind to the next serviced size as you are with shell bearings. The cost will be quite different though.

    Re the link to Roger's engine thread: Readers should be aware that Roger passed away in 2016.
    RossDel likes this.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    One benefit of white metal bearings is you can make them any size you like, so are not forced to regrind to the next serviced size as you are with shell bearings. The cost will be quite different though.
    I have not yet found anyone that can re pour white metal bearings for traction con rods successfully so that they last. They invariably disintegrate on the thrust side of the rods. Sometimes with catastrophic results, and other times it is only discovered upon dismantling as the damaged bearing particles are retained in place by the outer edges of the surface that have remained intact.
    RossDel likes this.
    Cheers Gerry

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Don't forget the parts book shows the conrods were improved/enlarged around 1959 and so you would want to use the later type. There would be few DS19 cars/engine donors out there with the earlier conrods now and you'd expect all of the locally built ID19s to have the later type.

    One benefit of white metal bearings is you can make them any size you like, so are not forced to regrind to the next serviced size as you are with shell bearings. The cost will be quite different though.

    Re the link to Roger's engine thread: Readers should be aware that Roger passed away in 2016.
    I should have mentioned that. Roger's legacy, however, lives on.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  9. #9
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Modified Traction-wp_20181128_17_06_44_pro.jpg

    I thought, on the subject of modified traction, I should publish this.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

    DS23 IE Pallas Automatique
    C5 X7 163 Exclusive
    C3 II 2010

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    wow that is awful!!
    '04 Megane
    Gone but not forgotten
    '71 16 TS, '72 16 TL, '74 15TS,'82 20TS Series 2, '85 25 GTX. '49 L15,

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    I'm with you. Have a good 2004 Megane X84 Sport too

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