My BX16v question thread
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Default My BX16v question thread

    Some of you know already I picked up a nice immaculate BX16v on the weekend. I'm as happy as Larry with it but I have a few questions about various things. Things that I keep forgetting Alan S over the phone, or I forget what his answer was.

    Here goes;

    *Cooling: I had a low level coolant light flash up yesterday so I topped the coolant to about 3/4's of the coolant tank and went for a bit of a spirited drive last night. I thought I had it all sorted when it didn't budge over 90 degrees.

    This morning my mother drove it in (thumbs up from her btw) and when lugging up out of the ED tunnel the temp rose to 110C. The temp + stop lights came on. I pulled over, opened the bonnet. It had spewed a wee bit of coolant over towards the battery but all was settling down. I turned the heater on and she settled back to a little over 90 degrees again. I'll check the water level when she cools down this morning.

    My question is: What is the correct level of coolant in the resevoir? Did I have too much? If I have the correct amount, what should I systematically check to ensure this doesn't happen again? Would a faulty thermostat cause this?

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    Why don't the fans run after the motor is shut off? Are they meant to?

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    * Rear headrests: Are they hard to get? They seem like they should be there.

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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    I keep remembering things as I go on

    *Guage lighting: The far right side of my dashboard lights are out. This means that I can't see oil and water temp at night time which is a bit of a worry. The thing is, I have fuse F13 blowing all the time.

    Is all the guage lighting carried by the one fuse or is the far right section on the F13 circuit? I guess the bulb could just be out as well.

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    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    I hate you...

    I want that car...



    Check the coolant cap? They are pressure rated, and I remember someone had stuck a weaker one on my old 740 at some point, which occaisionally spat coolant everywhere.

    Good to see its all going well, damn lovely cars them BX 16Vs.

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I don't know if you really want to know how to fit new dash bulbs; it's a nightmare.
    You need to take the tray out near the clock and slide your arm in behind the speedo binnacle. There you should find a wing nut. Carefully unscrew it as it's attached to plastic & I think from memory the thread itself also is plastic or is held in by same.
    Remove the panel around the switch for the electric mirrors & driving light switch. Put your arm in there & straight up at about the same part on the speedo binnacle, you'll find another wingnut. The binnacle then slides straigh towards you until the end of the speedo cable is reached. If you change any bulbs; change them all. That way it reduces the need to repeat it in the near future. Test to be sure all are working before you refit the binnacle. Be sure to do the mod to the mounting of the speedo cable when you reassemble; or as I said to you the other day; buy a torch.

    The over-heating is a bit of a worry. Have you checked that the fans are running when this happens?
    Also, bleed the system of air just to be on the safe side. When all is running correctly, the temp gauge should be sitting around the 90 mark but if air is in the system, the water won't circulate past the thermoswitch and as a result it doesn't trigger or if it does, an air lock will prevent water from circulating through teh core; there's a heap of reasons why it causes problems.
    If the switch is dodgy, be sure that the thermoswitch you use is an FAE (brand) 3486 and not the same as the original which was a 3785 as the latter numbered one (3785) has too high a high speed cut in tempp that can sometimes allow the fans to cut in at too high a temp & cause this problem.
    Most parts places are now selling the 3486 but any holding old stock may supply you with the other.

    I can't get my CD Rom manual to operate at present, but it would be interesting if someone could look up their Haynes manual & tell us what fuse number 13 controls, just in case this is where the problem is stemming from.


    Alan S
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  6. #6
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    OK, bit of "bush mechanics" on the CD & we're away.

    Fuse 13 / 5 /brown (5 amps obviously)

    (It controls, according to Haynes) Side & tail warning lights, sidelights, switch lighting, on board computer lighting, front fog light switch (and warning light, relay coil.)

    If you reckon it keeps blowing, are all of those lights not operating at that time?


    Alan S
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    Member josephk's Avatar
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    Congratulations on buying a GREAT, I have an Identical car that I bought a few months back. Having owned at least 100 cars over the last 33 years. I can't believe how good they are.As with any Frenchy, you will need to constantly fiddle..but what a joy to drive.If you want it to really SING, remove rear muffler and fit airpod system ( using the original cold air intake and the lower air box) I will post pics of my system..Its makes the car. cheers josephk
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    The over-heating is a bit of a worry. Have you checked that the fans are running when this happens?
    Fans are running. I don't think they are running full speed though because as you said, you'd know about it. They are gently humming away though. The left fan has a bit of a squeek and may be running slower.

    As per Nicks suggestion, how do I check the pressure rating of the radiator cap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Also, bleed the system of air just to be on the safe side.
    I've never done this before, should I attempt it myself?

    When all is running correctly, the temp gauge should be sitting around the 90 mark but if air is in the system, the water won't circulate past the thermoswitch and as a result it doesn't trigger or if it does, an air lock will prevent water from circulating through teh core; there's a heap of reasons why it causes problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    If the switch is dodgy, be sure that the thermoswitch you use is an FAE (brand) 3486 and not the same as the original which was a 3785 as the latter numbered one (3785) has too high a high speed cut in tempp that can sometimes allow the fans to cut in at too high a temp & cause this problem.
    Most parts places are now selling the 3486 but any holding old stock may supply you with the other.
    I should go and pick one of these up today. Available from any Peugeot workshop yeah?

    I won't worry about the fuse and dash lighting issue yet. I think I might need to buy that torch . Side and Tail warning lights are the hazard warning lights I am assuming. They work. Foglights don't though/ I'm not exactly sure what the 'switch lights'. Maybe they are the aircon switch lighting. They currently don't work.

    I'm at home for the rest of the day now, so I want to get this cooling thing sorted.

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Brendan,

    I'd firstly do a bleed job on it.

    There's 4 bleeders from memory; one at the thermostat housing, one nearby on the fitting to the by pass hose to the plenum, one on the heater rail at the rear of the engine and one up near the top of the radiator on a hose that sits as high as the top of the header tank.
    With a cool engine, fill the coolant bottle to almost the top. Slacken the highest bleeder and watch for bubbles; when it flows clear without any air, close it off (all of these are only ever finger tight.) Then do the one on the thermostat housing followed by the one close by on the by pass hose fitting and finally the one on the heater rail at the rear of the engine.
    Re-check the coolant level & top up again. Then starting at the heater rail proceed back in reverse order to the one on the hose on top of the head of the radiator. If no air comes out of this high one, just fill coolant slowly until it does. That's the way I've always done these & never had a problem.

    Pull the plug off the fan switch. You'll find that down the Righ hand side of the radiator & it gived the impression it's connected to a hose. Grab a bit of copper wire & bare the ends or alternatively, often the probe wires off a small multi meter will do the job. Push one end into one terminal and the other end into the terminal at right angles to it. It should spin the fan when the key is turned on. Then put it into the other terminal at right angles to it; it should spin either faster or slower than the other side.
    If it doesn't then there's a chance your fan speed controller is playing up. If it doesn't go at all; it's the switch that's at fault.
    Any problems; you know where I am.


    Alan S

    PS. Whoops nearly forgot; be sure the heater is set in the hottest position whilst you do this to get all the air out of it too in case there's any in there.
    Last edited by Alan S; 18th May 2004 at 04:12 PM.
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Alrighty I think we have it sorted. Now it's sitting just under 90 around town and a little over 90 when sitting at traffic lights, but I think that is due to the fan problem that I'm having. I'll test out the fans later Alan and let you know how I went.

    I didn't know a bleed was so easy, but I broke the little plastic top on the valve on the thermostat. Oops. Such a silly design.

    By the sounds of it, quite a bit of air came out of it, particularly at the top bleed point. Coolant level was dropping about 30mm every 7-10 seconds when it was open! Not sure if that was normal or not but I was a bit surprised.

    Anyway, she's all good now Next step is to sort those fans out.

    I wonder if this is why the previous owner sold it?

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    * Rear headrests: Are they hard to get? They seem like they should be there.
    Brendan, whoohoo what a bargain, congrats, you'll find the beasty is very addictive... I've been driving mine all but exclusively since I picked it up, poor old XM great little car around town or on a trip.

    Rear headrests are the same as fronts but you have to cut down the stem, shouldn't be too hard to track down.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josephk
    Congratulations on buying a GREAT, I have an Identical car that I bought a few months back. Having owned at least 100 cars over the last 33 years. I can't believe how good they are.As with any Frenchy, you will need to constantly fiddle..but what a joy to drive.If you want it to really SING, remove rear muffler and fit airpod system ( using the original cold air intake and the lower air box) I will post pics of my system..Its makes the car. cheers josephk
    Thanks for the tips Joseph. What did you replace the rear muffler with? Mine has a leak and I'm wondering whether I should replace or repair. A replacement scares me as I want to keep the same sound level as the standard system.

    I'll keep the intake setup standard as it all looks pretty well setup to me.

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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Thanks for the headrest tip Chris. You're right, it's bloody addictive. I usually don't drive to work but I just can't help it.

    I called Tom Dolan this morning to see what records he has on the car. He noted incorrect rear spheres after replacing the suspension arms in Oct 2003. Hrm. It feels OK though, perhaps a wee bit firm.

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I replaced my muffler just after I got the car. The one I have is for a 5 litre V8 and whilst it makes it sound OK without being objectionable, it does tend to make it drum a bit inside the car. To mount it they have to do a couple of things to the system and this in turn places extra weight onto the springs at the downpipe coupling & can (and did) create a noise that I could live without and that we just can't get rid of.
    Don't under any cricumstances take the car to a Cit place to either buy or get fitted a new muffler if you opt for the original east west style as they will take you to the cleaners big time;
    I was quoted $265 plus fitting from one, $200 "and I don't know if that's fitted or not; we'll have to wait 'n see what price it comes out at." by another and $125 fitted from a "Walker Muffler" exhaust shop. It turns out that Walker actually supply the mufflers for Citroen and current new price is $137 fitted. The same system fits all BXs regardless of whether they are 1.6 litre, 1.9 litre or 16 valve. I've just priced one for Adrian so that's an up to date price.


    Alan S
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Good stuff. I don't have any problems sticking a Walker on it. I know they do a quality muffler.

    Lukey distributes them in Australia don't they? Do you remember the part number Alan?

    They did pretty well in the Autospeed Muffler test a few years back;

    http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0381/article.html

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Don't know the part number but in the catalogue it's just shown as a Citroen BX 1.9 litre muffler and is usually easy to get.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  17. #17
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Good call,

    leave the intake & exhaust alone ... You'll almost certainly lose drivability and/or power if you start fidling with air intakes and different exhausts.

    Just look up the puma racing site. The guy obviously know his stuff, and his (rather blunt & tactless) opinion is the factory standard setup is extremely good, and spending $$$ here is a complete waste.

    The only way I'd spent mechanical $$$ to get more neddies out of the 16valver is to get the correct 160hp cam timing & ecu's (which seems to be as prevelant as 5spd narrow shaft CX driveshafts ).

    I've just had my Dash in bits in the CX. It's a bloody nightmare of those stupid blue ribbon cables. I'm now the only person I know of that's ever got the oil pressure/oil level combination guage working again

    Went out this morning and started the car. Yes !!! it still works, plugged the speedo cable on and screwed the binnacle back together to drive to work.... You guessed it the guage has stopped Not only that I appear to have killed the fuel guage as well Oh well, everything is always MUCH more fun the 2nd time around

    If the BX has that stupid ribon cable/circuit board flexible stuff, the connection between that and the PCB I've found to be the biggest problem.

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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    I dont think the Citroen gods like me.

    On the way home tonight I was going through the process that Alan explained to check the fan operation and I heard a pipe burst under the bonnet. Engine temp at the time was around 90 degrees - so it wasn't running hot. I'd topped up the water about 15 mins prior so that was all good.

    I dawdled home (about 100m away luckily) and parked it in the garage. Yep, she's dumping water behind the back of the motor and it's trickling down near the cat and dropping from there. Can't quite see where it has burst though, it's too dark currently.

    Al - was that hose at the back the one that you said was very expensive?

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    I dont think the Citroen gods like me.

    On the way home tonight I was going through the process that Alan explained to check the fan operation and I heard a pipe burst under the bonnet. Engine temp at the time was around 90 degrees - so it wasn't running hot. I'd topped up the water about 15 mins prior so that was all good.

    I dawdled home (about 100m away luckily) and parked it in the garage. Yep, she's dumping water behind the back of the motor and it's trickling down near the cat and dropping from there. Can't quite see where it has burst though, it's too dark currently.

    Al - was that hose at the back the one that you said was very expensive?
    don't worry, I know this guy that bought a CX2500 GTi Turbo from his father, the car had been faultlessly reliable for the entire time his father owned it.

    Not long after he bough it, the cooling system hit meltdown, one new radiator later, weeping housings on the head, lots of bleeding and checking later that was fixed.

    Then came fueling problems, followed quickly by the fuel regulator dying (at the same time as I drove through NSW and had to use that sugar cane fuel --related ).

    Followed by endless electrical niggles, which I've only very recently fixed after spending about 2weekends cleaning every electrical contact in site.

    Lets not forget the water pump shitting itself, the rear arm bearings being dead ..... Phew.... What a lot of work.

    Strange bit ?? Not one single item is really related to the cars reliability or brand, rather it's just at "that age"

    Would I get rid of the car ?? Never, why get something perfect just to sell it (perfect , we still need engine mounts, front ball joints & bushes, roof lining.... Lets not forget the clutch hasn't got much life left. To be fair I new all this stuff before buying the car, crazy or what ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    I dont think the Citroen gods like me.

    On the way home tonight I was going through the process that Alan explained to check the fan operation and I heard a pipe burst under the bonnet. Engine temp at the time was around 90 degrees - so it wasn't running hot. I'd topped up the water about 15 mins prior so that was all good.

    I dawdled home (about 100m away luckily) and parked it in the garage. Yep, she's dumping water behind the back of the motor and it's trickling down near the cat and dropping from there. Can't quite see where it has burst though, it's too dark currently.

    Al - was that hose at the back the one that you said was very expensive?
    The citroen god totally hates me ive replaced my head gasket, spheres, all belts, hydrolic pump, thermo fans, discs, clutch and diff. The family that owned the car before me let there son borrow it and he thrashed the daylights out of it. Im not gonna deny that i havent thrashed my car, i give it a bit here and there but ive learnt that giving it a hrd time and it will give you a very very hard time! Now im looking into performance mods, theres a few different ways to go about it but yeah.

    Since i bought my 16 Valve just over a year ago i have replaced every radiator hose on the car. And every time a house blew i was out on the road so a tow truck was needed. Its not cheap but it also isnt expensive. A common problem is the heater tap, they break if they are old. I learnt the hard way one day when i was wearing thongs and got hot collant all over my feet! Have a look at the union thats on the back of the motor, it has 3 or 4 hoses attached to it i think. If you cant put the car up on a hoist just put it on full ride hieght and look under the drivers side wheel arch, youll see a hose that runs from the front to the back to this plastic looking cooupleing at the back of the motor and it has a few small hoses connected to it as well. Personally id just replace them all in one go if they look old or shabby. But then again this is just my opinion. Alan S is the man around here for 16 v's so ill leave it to him!

    Cheers dude! 16 Valves Rock!
    Last edited by sproose16v; 20th May 2004 at 05:48 AM.
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Brendan,

    Went out last night on business so I didn't see this until just now.

    Firstly, I'd suggest just whacking straight water in to find the leak.
    As has been suggested, it could be the hose to the heater; I have a son with a habit of snapping them usually by dropping the engine on them when he's working on the car but apart from that, I haven't really heard of them failing apart from the attached water control valve seizing. They are an absolute #%^&*(!! to replace as half the dash has to come out & what a mongrel to get to, but let's not hit the panic button just yet on that.
    If it was the hose I referred to, it's not all that bad if you follow this mod. (which you'll need to be logged into Yahoo to see):

    http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...c=gr%26.view=t

    Personally, I think you may find it is one of the elbows on the heater rail as the one on the drivers side tends to rub on one of the hydrayulic lines leading to the brake doseur valve & may just have rubbed through.
    If you remember, when I spoke to you the other day I mentioned that leaks in certain areas will lead to coolant loss when hot & air ingestion as they cool, so this possibly will clear all of your cooling problems in one go so look on the brighter side.
    The reason I have doubts on it being the "Rob Fort Knox" priced hose is that usually this only leaks about 5 minutes after the car is stopped and not when the engine is running. If however, the water seems to be coming from behind the bottom pulley on the engine, don't drive the car until the problem has been attended to as that could indicate a problem in the region of the water pump & hence the cambelt which is potentially megabucks if it decides to cause contamination & weakness to it.

    Alan S
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    Member josephk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    Thanks for the tips Joseph. What did you replace the rear muffler with? Mine has a leak and I'm wondering whether I should replace or repair. A replacement scares me as I want to keep the same sound level as the standard system.

    I'll keep the intake setup standard as it all looks pretty well setup to me.
    The rear muffler was replaced with a 2 1/4" pipe. The centre muffler is a Walker, the sound is slightly louder and definately no drumming at all. Cost $70 including a chrome tip. It seems to have improved low down torque..I think the original system is very well designed but very restrictive. cheers joseph
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    A friend of mine used to service this car, i hate to tell you this, and im not trying to tread on any toes or cause any s**t. The number 2 cylinder on that car only has about 120PSI of compression. I think the norm is 180PSI. I was told the idle is really weird because of this. From what i know the car has had close to 8000 dollars spent on it. If you have any questions or quires you can contact my buddy he used to service this car and do all mechanical work on it.

    I thought i knew the numberplate of that car from somewhere, ive seen it a fair bit and have always marvelled at what good condition it is in. I told my buddy that someonw bought it and then he told me about the compression thingy so i thought you know macquered. Sorry dude.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 21st May 2004 at 12:50 PM.
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  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sproose16v
    A friend of mine used to service this car, i hate to tell you this, and im not trying to tread on any toes or cause any s**t. The number 2 cylinder on that car only has about 120PSI of compression. I think the norm is 180PSI. I was told the idle is really weird because of this. From what i know the car has had close to 8000 dollars spent on it. If you have any questions or quires you can contact my buddy he used to service this car and do all mechanical work on it.

    I thought i knew the numberplate of that car from somewhere, ive seen it a fair bit and have always marvelled at what good condition it is in. I told my buddy that someonw bought it and then he told me about the compression thingy so i thought you know macquered. Sorry dude.
    Were waiting with baited breath. So who's there service people that did over $8,000 of work and didn't fix it's overheating problems and low compression problem when it's had that much spent on it Especially when I feel the overheating problems is the sort of thing a backyarder like me could fix very easily

    It's gotta be a specialist... Do tell which one We gotta know who to avoid at all cost

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by GreenBlood; 21st May 2004 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Removed name and phone number of repairer
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    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Jack Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Gosford, NSW
    Posts
    302

    Default

    The Forum Gestapo is alive in well @ AussieFrogs...

    Let's make sure we never criticise repairers that charge $$$$'s for no result and give the honest repairers a bad name... !!!

    It's much beeter to allow enthusists to get ripped off.... obviously....

    My posting has been removed as instructed!

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